What should be put in place for shielders if we go down lock vulnerable down and carry on

[Someonetakemebackto91]

We are a shielding family ( DD 7 ) is the vulnerable one.

I see more and more people are moving over to the idea it’s better to protect the vulnerable and allow the others to go back to semi normal and carry on until vaccine or herd immunity or whatever people think the outcome will be.

If this was even an idea there will have to be more support than a box of fruit delivered on a Monday.
If everyone can else can carry on as usual there should be

• job protection ( on the same level as non shielders, so basically can be use against them in the work place )

• full wage coverage

• for parent carers an increase in carers allowance. ( loss of respite as-well as increase in bills ) shielders only.

Seperate hospitals
Open the nightingale hospitals etc and use these got covid patients and have hospitals for the shielders to attend safety for medical treatment including transport.

• education for kids in shielding households needs to match full time education.

Thoughts ? What do you think they should do for shielders if they decide yo go down this route !

This thread is a harrowing read

The trouble with your plan is that it is open to abuse, the tax payer already has a massive bill due to the no questions ask approach. The country can’t afford it.

I think if you are ECV and need to shield then yes, income protection for that group and for anyone caring for an ECV person e.g. school age child will need an adult at home, obviously.

But all the rest is cloud cuckoo land, even if we wish it weren’t. There’s no money to pay for a whole household having special dispensation when, as pointed out on this thread, other vulnerable and marginalised groups scrape by on benefits.

It’s shit but it’s unrealistic to even think any of the ideal scenarios suggested on this thread could work in person.

@Pixxie7 then it would need to be a questions asked approach. No shielding letter, no protection.

While ending shielding of children may cost a handful (at the very most countrywide) of lives in terms of children dying of the virus it is likely to save a greater number of other lives in terms of the mental health impact and other effects of continued lockdown.

I doubt you have a clinically vulnerable child.

Do you seriously expect parents of vulnerable shielding children to offer them up as a sacrifice for the 'greater good'?

@gypsywater

This thread is a harrowing read

This with bells on.

Well I now understand how the holocaust happened. Too many people thinking: at least it's not me. Fuck the others.

I am having images of 1930s Germany too. Chilling.

Some of this thread stinks to high heaven. Talk of fining people for not shielding and witholding treatment from them. Of seperating them out from their family. I'll just trot off to the gulag, shall I?

There's no real solutions as to how to do this in a family home. I shielded away from my family for four months, my mental health was shot and I just can't do it again for an uncertain period of time. My dh needs to work out of the home in a public facing role, my DS needs to go to school. When people talk about shielding the vulnerable they seem to forget the vulnerable are people like them, people who also suffer depression and domestic violence, all the stuff that apparently us shielding will save the rest of the nation from. Yet again, we are sidelines, othered, expendable. We are the ones in the way of society getting back to normal and we are a hindrance to them. We are wrecking the lives of the young.

All of these things I have read on here over the past six months and this thread is already heading in that direction although I appreciate that it started discussing actual practicalities with care for those who are ECV.

I will shield again if asked to but if there are coercive methods and whiffs of eugenics as in these conversations I will be even more reluctant.

@rorosemary

Well I now understand how the holocaust happened. Too many people thinking: at least it's not me. Fuck the others.

Can I ask what you would propose as an alternative? If a vaccine isn’t available in the near future? I don’t mean this in a nasty way I just honestly don’t know what people want long term if a vaccine isn’t found.

[quote StatisticalSense]@Carrotgirl87
One option to provide care would be to dedicate entire blocks of flats to those shielding with those requiring care receiving care from others in the same block. This could also address the financial impact of shielding on those of working age as it would provide opportunities of work to those shielding. As those shielding shouldn't be having visitors those other considerations are irrelevant.[/quote]
Yeah, just shove all those annoying sick and disabled people away out of sight so they can stop being the cause of the great mental health crisis in our nation. They don't matter because they have underlying conditions and therefore DO NOT COUNT.

By the same measure @Eng123, enabling the people at risk to stay at home is far better than forcing everyone to stay at home and shutting the economy.

Yes exactly @Ecosse. Do people really think that because they are at risk everyone should be locked down rather than just them?

Well this has been an enlightening read...I think those who back herd immunity & the Barrington Declaration have really shown their true faces on this thread.
What a fucking disgrace. I’m out.

There needs to be a concentrated effort to identify fraudsters to account and punish them accordingly thus freeing up funds for those who need it. We can’t keep throwing money about otherwise the whole country will have no quality of life.

But being shut away so that others can live normally is oppressive in the extreme and needs considerable support. All those saying they want their lives back and they are fed up of being shut away to protect a few vulnerable people should remember that those few vulnerable people have also been shut away without a life.

I should probably add I’m not in favour of the motion 🤣 I am just curious about how others think it will work. We are one of the families in the category !!
The children being taken of the list, a lot have been my daughter hasn’t, the issue lays with the “ Kawasaki “ like illness. Luckily has not been as fatal but we have no real data about the children who did develop it apart from mainly in the 5-9 category. An illness like Kawasaki would potentially be very fatal to me DD.

The other issue is the hospital admissions and icu beds. There is many reasons my daughter could end up needing a vent but she wouldn’t be priority is there has to be choices !

@rorosemary

Well I now understand how the holocaust happened. Too many people thinking: at least it's not me. Fuck the others.

I can’t even imagine how stressful being a shielder must be or having a ECV child/relative. I do get tbe impression the OP was considering how those who are ECV can be supported rather than throwing them to the wolves.

@AbsentmindedWoman
Are you actually suggesting sacrificing children ? What the heck 😳

@Napqueen1234 yes yes yes
We are the ones in this category I am more trying to understand how if this does come in to motion how we will be supported not that I want it.

@ raccoonworld
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Can I ask what you would propose as an alternative? If a vaccine isn’t available in the near future? I don’t mean this in a nasty way I just honestly don’t know what people want long term if a vaccine isn’t found.

This is a mute point since we already know that there is a working vaccine, they don't do phase 3 tests on vaccines that don't work.

Can I ask what you would propose as an alternative? If a vaccine isn’t available in the near future? I don’t mean this in a nasty way I just honestly don’t know what people want long term if a vaccine isn’t found.

There’s essentially 2 options. Either a zero-covid approach like New Zealand where you can then build transport bridges with other zero covid countries. Or the ‘rolling lockdown’ approach where you lockdown but don’t eliminate and then continue to step up/down your lockdown measures as cases rise/fall. Which has the better long term effects for the economy/jobs is unknown, but we’ll probably have an answer for the next pandemic.

Given the billions we’ve spent on dodgy contracts for no return, I’m not sure why we can’t put money into spending on things that would maintain jobs and incentivise people to follow the rules & reduce transmission.

I'm ECV, still shielding and live alone
What would I like?
Making sure I can get food deliveries, it's a bit hit and miss at the minute and I'm doing 10pm ones as the day ones are around £6-7
My prescriptions delivered without a 3 week wait because that's a bit useless if you've got an infection
A shielding flu jab clinic/bloods - there is one for bloods but only in the afternoon which I can't go to as I'm working
Understanding that people are still shielding, I have a sign on my door and still have to ask delivery people to move back

Oh and people who can WFH to be able to do so and not be forced back to work