What should be put in place for shielders if we go down lock vulnerable down and carry on

[Someonetakemebackto91]

We are a shielding family ( DD 7 ) is the vulnerable one.

I see more and more people are moving over to the idea it’s better to protect the vulnerable and allow the others to go back to semi normal and carry on until vaccine or herd immunity or whatever people think the outcome will be.

If this was even an idea there will have to be more support than a box of fruit delivered on a Monday.
If everyone can else can carry on as usual there should be

• job protection ( on the same level as non shielders, so basically can be use against them in the work place )

• full wage coverage

• for parent carers an increase in carers allowance. ( loss of respite as-well as increase in bills ) shielders only.

Seperate hospitals
Open the nightingale hospitals etc and use these got covid patients and have hospitals for the shielders to attend safety for medical treatment including transport.

• education for kids in shielding households needs to match full time education.

Thoughts ? What do you think they should do for shielders if they decide yo go down this route !

@Racoonworld

Yes exactly *@Ecosse*. Do people really think that because they are at risk everyone should be locked down rather than just them?

No, those who shield don't have to live away imprisoned if people would properly social distance, have less parties, stay home when having a cold and wear facemasks. The problem is that too many people refuse to do these simple steps to keep the vulnerable reasonably safe. Have you read the whining on some threads? The "but I don't wanna" tantrums about facemasks?

"A regular time when shielded people can exercise outdoors without meeting anyone else (ie, everyone else has to stay in for a few hours)"

That isn't practically possible as other people need to go to work, do work that involves being outside etc. Particular enclosed spaces could be for the use of shielders only, at certain times but just no going outside for the rest of the population, isn't possible

I need to go to the hospital quite frequently at the moment. I need the health care professionals to also be kept safe from Covid so I can be kept safe. My DH's granny needs her carers and cleaners to be kept safe from covid. My colleague needs public transport to ve kept safe from covid while she is going through yet another chemo.

Society is connected. You can't effectively keep one group safe without having an impact on the whole. Everyone needs to do tgeir bit.

@Someonetakemebackto91 Um. No I didn't

The fuckwit I quoted clearly thinks it's A-OK to sacrifice a few vulnerable kids, with their suggestion of ending shielding for children and acknowledgement that it will 'cost a handful of lives in terms of children'.

The message is that that's perfectly alright as long as it's other people's children.

It is not the fucking hunger games.

You are a monster if you seriously expect parents of clinically vulnerable children to happily send them back into mixing in a society where covid runs unfettered with a shrug, knowing that their child is susceptible to serious harm.

It ain't gonna happen and if you think parents should willingly do this, and they are unreasonable to object, you are sociopathic.

@AbsentmindedWoman I apologise I tagged the wrong person
I agree with you !

@ Pixxie7 I take it you’ve never seen a PiP form. 🧐

I used to wonder how Nazi Germany happened. Now I know. This and the last few years... sickening.

Gildad@ not aimed at genuine people but at the people who set up bogus companies to access government grants.

@StatisticalSense
Ability to opt out of shielding without penalty on understanding that others will be prioritised for Covid related health care (except for those over state pension age)
So just because I was born with a medical condition that puts me in the shielding category, you don’t think I’m entitled to medical help if I decided I don’t want to basically be kept locked up for months? Aren’t you delightful!! What a stupid and pathetic person you are to have such opinions about those shielding.

I used to wonder how Nazi Germany happened. Now I know. This and the last few years... sickening.
This^^

Shielding is for the benefit of society in that is would allow the rest of us to get back to something more like normal and keep the economy going without having hospitals overwhelmed

For me shielding is primarily for my benefit since I don't want to be seriously ill, be in hospital, possibly have long term health issues or die.

What should be done for shielders:

Most should be able to access online food deliveries now, maybe make them guaranteed with no delivery charges with food boxes or other people shopping for the rest.

Access to internet and laptops provided to those on low incomes to enable them to stay in touch. Maybe some kind of IT training for those who need it.

Some kind of income protection, even being put on the high rates of ESA with some kind of help for those with mortgages.

Some kind of social/ mental health support on a weekly basis. Befriending for those who would benefit.

In the beginning there was a lot of empathy to those shielding and lots of people willing to help but now I see a lot less compassion as it's been replaced with hostility.

Nazi germany started because the German people wanted a better quality of life, were fed lies and propaganda.

Ability to opt out of shielding without penalty on understanding that others will be prioritised for Covid related health care (except for those over state pension age)

This one is a reality now. I have had zero access to healthcare for my condition since the beginning of March and have been told it will "possibly be sometime next year, covid comes first" (yes, their exact words) before I'll see someone. I'm just told to pump in the drugs, take the painkillers and stay indoors.

For me, the NHS has given me the middle finger and said "good luck". No thanks, I'll have some form of life and take my chances.

All this looking out for each other and doing the right thing is bullshit and the bullshit starts at the so called top. Save your typing on the wish lists, because you know it won't happen.

It would be completely wrong to offer a level of financial protection to those being shielded for their own benefit that is greater than that whose jobs have been destroyed for the supposed benefit of the country as a whole. Society needs to pay for the choices made by the government for the benefit of society but choices (that are entirely optional) made for the benefit of the individual should be paid for by that individual.

My understanding was that shielding was to protect the NHS by avoding having hospitals full of people who would need more intensive support with COVID.
As a family we shieled the 1st time but dh carried on working as he can WFH.

If you think shielding was done for the protection of the individual, then I think you are a little naive politically

It was done at a time when a massive first peak was expected. The ECV would have filled all the hospitals rapidly - not the elderly. they could rely on structural ageism and DNR / but the non-age related, such as young people, who were playing a full role in society

90000 (formerly) children - no way could they be turned away from beds. Which means no beds for anyone else. Had to be averted.

Shielding is currently paused. Nothing is being done

The politicians have noticed that the sky hasn’t fallen in. The treatments are different, second wave is serious but the numbers of (former) shielded people aren’t going to be the key difference in whether NHS copes. That’ll be demand for beds for flu

So as we’re not the top risk for overwhelming NHS, we’re nowhere in either political decisions or financial support. Yes we’re still as vulnerable individually. But once you grasp that our individual vulnerability is not at the root of the policy making, it becomes clear why we’re all still out with no additional restrictions at present.

How would people manage the contact with healthcare workers? vulnerable people have a higher than average likelihood of requiring regular care, medical clinics and hospital admissions. If cases in the community are high, then there is a higher chance that an asymptomatic carer/hcw may pass it on or person may get it from contact with other people in waiting areas etc.

You could segregate hospitals and say that carers should be regularly tested and some should only care for shielders.

Those in care homes would have to be separated into those who wish to take a risk with their life and see relatives and those who do not wish to.

Even with all these protections - corona is v infectious and it would be hard.

Personally I think that it is easier to keep cases low by another strict but short lockdown - with similar financial protections for the population and then expanding test and trace and lift restrictions slowly.

I also think it would be easier to roadblock off the low infection areas (requiring quarantine to cross in). So that life can back to more normality there. But this does rely on test and Traci no working

What can we do to protect and support the vulnerable and let everyone else go back to normal?

Nothing.

It's even harder than trying to suppress the virus in the general population because the vulnerable ( that's anyone over 45 if you want the NHS to be normal ) are needed for society to function normal and are much less likely to comply with rules that are so harshly divisive

I also think it would be easier to roadblock off the low infection areas

I think that's a unicorn idea. Lookmat the Isle of Man - clear borders, controlled entry, quarantine as condition of entry, everyone signs that they understand. And they still managed to have an utter twat deciding that a visit to a supermarket won't hurt.

And it did.

If it can't be achieved with that level of information and enforcement, then there's no way it'll happen between regions on the bigger islands of the British Isles

My MiL is ecv but will probably have to return to work at the beginning of November. Furlough will be stopped and she is single so has no other income. It just doesn’t make sense, she is still just as at risk from the virus.

Guaranteed food delivery slot, remote education for children and funding to cover the basics of heat/shelter and food. We can’t afford to pay full salaries for people.

Shielding was a choice, no one was forced to do it. Many wanted to carry on with some form of normality.

We should be protecting all so addressing what needs to be done to achieve that. No one knows how Covid will be for them, many have long term damage currently.

@FightMilkTM

My MiL is ecv but will probably have to return to work at the beginning of November. Furlough will be stopped and she is single so has no other income. It just doesn’t make sense, she is still just as at risk from the virus.

Read @iVampire post, this is why. Shielding was never for the individual person’s benefit.

I really don't think there is a valid tactic for shilers. Everyone has to find their own level of comfortable in this pandemic.

I don't think it would be popular if there are different rules for different population groups.

Small things like supermarkets delivery and wfh where possible are already in place.

I am not sure how I would feel if shilders had their income protected when so many people I know are in the process of losing their jobs, in a diminished jobs market.

Nazi germany started because the German people wanted a better quality of life, were fed lies and propaganda

Except for the fact that they did deliver on their promises of jobs/ better quality of life in the beginning... it wasn't just lies for Joe Blox. They built motorways, car facories and housing...
And if you look at the current situation with people who agree to have their liberty restricted.

The question that hasn't been addressed much is how are we going to pay for any additional benefits (including free holidays) for shielded. Unemployment is rising, tax revenue is falling, GDP growth is negative, National debt is at a record high.... honestly where should this money come from?!

@Sunflowers247

The question that hasn't been addressed much is how are we going to pay for any additional benefits (including free holidays) for shielded. Unemployment is rising, tax revenue is falling, GDP growth is negative, National debt is at a record high.... honestly where should this money come from?!

Exactly this. All the ideas of what "should" be done are simply a wish list and one or two just bonkers. A free holiday in a posh hotel, really!!!

To put it bluntly, the country hasn't got a pot to piss in, so none of this can be afforded.