Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

I'm so angry...

419 replies

MaryShelley1818 · 05/10/2020 14:22

We are in an area with local restrictions so high transmission rates in the North East of England.

Someone I know had her 40th at the weekend and photos on FB of her having a party in a pub, cake presents, her and kids, her parents, her sister who works at a local University in a very high position, and about 4-5 friends. No Social Distancing, drinking, cuddling, shots, photos.
How are people just carrying on as normal??!! How can you be so bloody thick as to post all the photos on FB. Am I missing something?? I'm furious.

We've followed every single rule but seems I'm in the minority and the longer people just do whatever they want for, the longer I'll have to go without seeing my friends and family.

OP posts:
TheDailyCarbuncle · 06/10/2020 17:30

@LangClegsInSpace

WHO's messaging has been incredibly clear from the start:

Find, test, isolate and care for every case, trace and quarantine every contact.

That approach works for an illness with very distinct symptoms that's present in a small area - you can find all the cases quickly and control them. WHO realised very early on that that approach would only be effective in a very very limited way for countries that already had thousands infected across entire countries. Even the WHO has now accepted that we are way beyond that approach.

Dr Michael Ryan of the WHO has been bordering on incoherent about covid at times - his assertion that one must avoid covid at all costs is bizarre in the light of the fact that such a thing is in no way possible - for us to achieve that we'd have to accept not having any healthcare or any other services for a period of time which is obviously nonsense. So what's the message after that - avoid covid unless you happen to be unlucky enough to be a doctor or someone providing an essential service?

TheDailyCarbuncle · 06/10/2020 17:36

The mindset and approach of the WHO has been very much based on a deadly, easily identifiable illness, like ebola. With an illness like that there are a few inherent factors that aid in controlling it - very clear symptoms that come on quickly, few or no asymptomatic cases, a strong motivation on the part of people not to get it (as it's awful), a very clear and controllable process of transmission (bodily fluids). Covid fits exactly zero of those characteristics - it has a very indistinct incubation period, masses of asymptomatic cases, a dazzling array of symptoms, is very mild for many cases, and transmission is exceptionally hard to control. Controlling the risk means taking measures that have major consequences without being very effective.

mumof2exhausted · 06/10/2020 17:44

Honestly I think of a lot of educated people, especially those working in the health sector actually understand that the “rule of 6” is nonsensical. You can meet one grandparent at 1pm, one at 2pm, then 5 different friends from 5 different households for dinner at, then send your kids to school with 30 other kids in the morning. Everyone I know is being very sensible and making their own risk assessments. I basically have a bubble of 10 people (which is immediate family, grandparents and sister - sometimes this means there are 7 /8 at in time) who I’m seeing in my house. Other friends I’m meeting outside for walks etc. PS there’s no reason to self isolate just because you are pregnant

DrSK2 · 06/10/2020 17:45

To all anti-vaccines: this is akin to getting your child vaccinated and seeing others not vaccinated. They risk the community health whilst you take the plunge and obey the rules for the wellbeing of the community.

ExpatAl · 06/10/2020 17:58

I totally understand and sympathise where you’re coming from. I feel the same about people breaking rules and I last saw my mum in the summer and will have to wait a long time to see her again. Stressing about the behaviour of others leads to madness though. Let it go and try to remember why she’s a friend.

FelicisNox · 06/10/2020 18:03

YANBU.

Everyone is whinging about lockdown but no one wants to do what's necessary to put a stop to it.

It's all very irritating and boring now.

Teddybear27 · 06/10/2020 18:11

I think there are two types of people, those who are concerned about getting Covid and so are cautious and perhaps those that are concerned but still want to get on with their lives and perhaps are a bit more ‘what will be will be’... there is no point getting worried/angry about what someone else is doing

IrmaFayLear · 06/10/2020 18:14

TheDailyCarbuncle I unilaterally award you the prize of the most intelligent MNetter!

randomer · 06/10/2020 18:20

@Teddybear27 and the third kind, in their millions who plod along doing as they are asked and getting on with it.

Watermelon999 · 06/10/2020 18:24

@Wherrsmaclickypen

“Morning watermelon999 😬 Yes and I agree with your original post. I've seen too many (quite angry) posts that criticise but don't suggest anything better.

Also, this is the first "plague" we have experienced in the days of social media and I worry about the influence some 'rebellious' posts have on nudging others to bend or ignore rules. Especially goady ones that declare others to be stupid sheep etc. Feels pretty irresponsible to me. Politely disagreeing with the Op is one thing, making them and everyone that is complying feel foolish for doing so, or applauding such sentiments, is quite another.”

Agree with you 100%

Still not seen many suggestions as to alternatives to the current rules!!

rainbowbear10 · 06/10/2020 18:27

My daugfhter is in university accomodation and it was her flatmates 21st at the weekend and without asking invited sudents and friends not ay Uni into the flat for a party// the flat have just came out of isolation after another flatmate byfriend tested positive in the week before my daughter arrieved ....shocking behaviour cobsidering they are supposed to be adults and had notice from accomodation and university that this was not allowed

user1472151176 · 06/10/2020 18:33

I'm in the North East too and it seems around here no one cares. The general consensus of opinion is if they want to see their family they will and never mind everyone else (hense our ridiculously high numbers) makes me mad - I'm sticking to the rules. I know people who work in hospitals on the front line in dealing with Covid, it's no joke

Clytemnestra2 · 06/10/2020 18:45

@TheDailyCarbuncle please can you be in charge of the country? I’ve been nodding along to pretty much everything you’ve said.

The warped idea some people have about avoiding Covid being the only goal worth focusing on, to the detriment of every other illness and aspect of life is bizarre and depressing. Is preventing x number of Covid deaths worth it if means y number of people dying of suicide, late-diagnosed cancers or whatever? Not to mention the long term mental and economic trauma. To paraphrase the M&S ad some people really do seem to think ‘This is not just a death, this is a Covid death’

Watermelon999 · 06/10/2020 18:47

@LangClegsInSpace

“Sort out testing, sort out contact tracing, support people to effectively self isolate. Chase the fucker down and contain it.

Lockdown measures and restrictions are for when we've fucked that up. If we don't know where the virus is we have to keep everyone away from everyone else. That's where we are now.

Lockdown measures are not a solution in themselves, they just buy a bit of time. We have to use that time to build up testing and contact tracing, and to put in place the things people need to self isolate. If we don't do that we're back to square one. Neither people nor the economy can withstand repeated lockdowns with no progress and no end in sight.”

Agree with you 100% re: testing and tracing, despite having months to organise it, it’s still a complete shambles.

I’m not sure if they completely underestimated the demand, especially when schools returned, or if they’re just incompetent. You’d have thought they’d have been maximising lab space and training more testers etc.

Re: lockdown, I do agree, but don’t see what other choice there is at the moment with cases rising massively and the tracing system failing.

Without knowing the reasons for the rise in positive cases, and where/how these are happening, and also the number who are symptomatic/asymptomatic/really poorly etc I find it hard to have a strong opinion on what other measures could be taken.

Tiredwiththeshits · 06/10/2020 18:59

If Covid runs out of people to infect. It basically does die out. We now know that for us to have isolated cases, people need to be symptomatic and tested positive or just isolating themselves or tested positive through a random test etc, anyway...
the issue is, COVID-19 is also a-symptomatic which means, we need to distance to stop the spread. So yes people ‘having a bit of fun’ and mingling is exactly what is keeping this in circulation. The only way to stop something you cannot see is to limit the risk of catching it.
Unfortunately I know of waaay to many people who totally ignore the rules. We follow the rules but we are also boring and focus mainly on work and our nucleus.

rumandbiscuits · 06/10/2020 19:03

@TheDailyCarbuncle

I'm sure you're working very hard to help the many many children that were thrown under the bus by lockdown *@MaryShelley1818*.

What really irritates me is that when all the analysis of this shitshow comes out next year, there'll be endless handwringing about the long term effects of isolation, about how for many people 'the cure was worse than the disease.' And yet now all people can say, zombie-like, is 'law, law, law,' while pointing fingers at other people and claiming to occupy a moral high ground. Everyone will act next year like it wasn't foreseeable, like they couldn't have known it was happening. It's so fucking predictable.

Totally agree. I feel like everyday I'm sat back just watching a huge car crash in slow motion and not being able to do anything about it. So much damage has already been done sadly.
THEDEACON · 06/10/2020 19:03

OP I'm with you sick to death of flagrant law breaking and risk taking

Watermelon999 · 06/10/2020 19:31

@TheDailyCarbuncle

“An ideal alternative would be to have a healthcare system and a disaster plan that has actual capacity to deal with situations like this.”

Yes completely agree. The reality though is the opposite. Every winter our hospital literally runs out of beds due to “normal” winter pressures. That’s despite using every available space. Routine care and surgery invariably gets cancelled for bed space. You’d think that they would learn but it happens every year. I can’t imagine what will happen this year. It’s very scary.

“the next thing would be to look properly at the actual data and look critically at the actual benefit (or otherwise) of 'protecting the NHS.' It's beyond bonkers to protect the NHS by making people sicker and more depressed, by tanking the economy such that you reduce revenue and increase poverty and the resulting effects of job losses.”

I agree with proper analysis of the data in order to determine the best way forward. I would hope the experts are doing this, but there seem to be vastly differing opinions, and conflicting decisions. Plus no one explains the reasoning very well, so people don’t get on board with it.

The problem with not protecting the NHS and carrying on with life, even with extra precautions, is that we will become overrun with people struggling with breathing who require urgent medical intervention, like in April. It was a very scary time.

In the short term this will quickly become unmanageable. In our hospital covid admissions have more than quadrupled in 2 weeks. ITU is nearly full already. Without some action to slow/reverse this, what do we do? Turn people away?

The more patients admitted with covid, the more other services are restricted or stopped. The fact is there is just not the capacity for both. We are already backlogged from having departments closed and staff redeployed in April.

“It's political pandering from politicians who would rather tank the economy and destroy people's lives than say 'there is a hard limit to what we can do in this situation.' I am genuinely shocked that people not only accept being told they can't see their own families, that they must leave elderly people isolated, lonely and struggling, they demand it. Such is the level of tunnel-vision and lack of understanding about what you can really do in this situation. “

I’m not sure it’s that simple. There’s a fine balance between allowing freedom, boosting the economy and protecting the vulnerable. I wouldn’t fancy making those decisions. People have been allowed to care for their vulnerable relatives, and single people allowed to bubble up. We were allowed to see friends and family, at distance, but unfortunately people started ignoring the distancing and therefore the rates increased.

If people could be trusted to be sensible, wash hands, keep distance, wear masks, isolate when needed etc, these extra measures may not have been needed. Along with a fully functioning test and trace as well.

annabel85 · 06/10/2020 19:40

[quote randomer]@Teddybear27 and the third kind, in their millions who plod along doing as they are asked and getting on with it.[/quote]
AKA the socially responsible and not the selfish

annabel85 · 06/10/2020 19:47

@THEDEACON

OP I'm with you sick to death of flagrant law breaking and risk taking
People do what they can get away with though. The difference is lax policing and enforcement in the UK (with the occasional focusing on an easy target). Try and take the piss in somewhere like Spain or Italy where the police aren't to be messed with.

We don't like heavy handed policing though in the UK, but the trade off is people getting away with more. Ultimately though Brits don't respect laws, they respect enforcement. They'll go out their way to the bend the rules as much as they can get away with.

earnshaw47 · 06/10/2020 19:57

this is a good example as to why the pandemic is still with us, too many selfish thougtless people around, , apart from this party i am so tired of the mental health of young people , not being able to party etc, look at the other end of the scale, i am 73 , havent been near my grandchildren, the only ones in my house are me and hubby, i feel slightly depressed, partly , age wise.we do not live forever and i am wondering when i can hug my grandchildren

SwimSwim · 06/10/2020 19:57

@thedailycarbuncle I couldn't agree more, I've been saying all along, why do the vulnerable from this virus trump the vulnerable from everything else?

OP people are fed up with more and more restrictions when the numbers of people being admitted to hospital/ICU/dying is now very small, relative to the population. This is with people 'breaking the rules' for months now. We've been threatened with a second wave because of rule breakers for a while now, yet look at the stats?! Measuring the number of positive cases daily, with an inaccurate test is completely misleading when you have no comparison as mass testing didn't start until after the initial peak.

SwimSwim · 06/10/2020 19:59

@thedailycarbuncle I couldn't agree more, I've been saying all along, why do the vulnerable from this virus trump the vulnerable from everything else?

OP people are fed up with more and more restrictions when the numbers of people being admitted to hospital/ICU/dying is now very small, relative to the population. This is with people 'breaking the rules' for months now. We've been threatened with a second wave because of rule breakers for a while now, yet look at the stats?! Measuring the number of positive cases daily, with an inaccurate test is completely misleading when you have no comparison as mass testing didn't start until after the initial peak.

SwimSwim · 06/10/2020 20:00

@thedailycarbuncle I couldn't agree more, I've been saying all along, why do the vulnerable from this virus trump the vulnerable from everything else?

OP people are fed up with more and more restrictions when the numbers of people being admitted to hospital/ICU/dying is now very small, relative to the population. This is with people 'breaking the rules' for months now. We've been threatened with a second wave because of rule breakers for a while now, yet look at the stats?! Measuring the number of positive cases daily, with an inaccurate test is completely misleading when you have no comparison as mass testing didn't start until after the initial peak.

annabel85 · 06/10/2020 20:12

@earnshaw47

this is a good example as to why the pandemic is still with us, too many selfish thougtless people around, , apart from this party i am so tired of the mental health of young people , not being able to party etc, look at the other end of the scale, i am 73 , havent been near my grandchildren, the only ones in my house are me and hubby, i feel slightly depressed, partly , age wise.we do not live forever and i am wondering when i can hug my grandchildren
Agree. It's not like the young haven't been enjoying themselves all summer. Packed out beaches, foreign holidays, pubs and bars open all night, house parties, raves etc etc. They've had a great time a lot of them.

Whereas those of us who've followed the rules from day one (or have just been very careful) have essentially lost a year of their life.

Now we're supposed to feel for the poor youth who can't stay out in the high street past 10pm over winter. It's because of all the millions of us who've been careful and done what they're told that the younger generation, or just the don't give a shit brigade, got to live it up all summer.