It feels like people on MN are willing schools to close

[Marcellemouse]

Lots of threads being really negative about schools reopening. These have been largely started by teachers, the latest one being about a gagging order on the BBC. My 2 and every other DC I know are thriving on schools opening again. DS actually stands a chance of doing well and getting back on track with GCSES. DC are happy and animated again. Their teachers have been fantastic, I'm massively impressed. Friends of mine who are secondary teachers are positive and happy to be back teaching in school instead of home learning. I just get a different vibe in RL than on MN about schools. What's the reality?

@notevenat20

notevenat20 retirement age for teachers is 67. It’s true many take early retirement because it’s so shit in schools even at the best of times, but you can’t just say ‘oh well there aren’t many’. The government say they should stay until 67, so they should make it as safe as possible for them to do so, not ‘organise‘ things So that just going to work is a high risk actuvity.

There were according to the govt 2.6% of teachers over 60 in 2019. So that's a large number but a small proportion.

The point isn't that one option is great and another one is terrible. The govt needs to weigh up the pros and cons nationally for each option. The risk to teachers over 60 is clear. The risk to the mental health of children not being allowed near their friends or not getting full education is also pretty clear. There is a long list of pros and cons on both sides.

I guess my only opinion for those arguing on either the pro or con side is to not ignore the immensely powerful arguments on the other side.

Just because teachers stop teaching in the 40s, 50s and 60s does not mean they have all retired early. They may well have opted for a less stressful job. You are too wrapped up in an ageist context.

The number that is interesting is the proportion of teachers who have underlying conditions, some of whom would have been on the original shielding list. They are not all over 60. Some have young children with health conditions.

It is only on mumsnet that I feel negativity about schools opening. A recent chat with Ds ( primary) teacher discussing my worry about schools closing again and his view was that most of the teachers in the school would ignore it and find a way to carry on. It's a state school covering an area of mixed backgrounds and I think they have really seen the impact on some children both mentally and educational.

@notevenat20

People suggesting that teachers don’t understand the importance of kids being in school should think a bit more carefully about that

Teachers aren't one amorphous mass. It is important not to over generalise.

There are certainly some teachers who only mention the costs of keeping schools open without addresses the costs of having them closed.

There are significant costs both ways. The investment in IT upgrades has been considerable so we can stream lessons to those students who are self isolating or staff who are isolating can deliver lessons.

We have the DfE, OFSTED and OFQUAL constantly dicking about changing the rules. As for that tosser, Gavin Williamson, he is keeping quite in hope that we have forgotten about all of his fuck ups. (I apologise for swearing but these people have not helped schools, teachers nor students since March)

School budgets have been hammered and there will be no room for any niceties at school for the next few years as a lot of schools will be on a debt recovery plan.

No one I know irl is in favour of schools closing or going part time, including the teachers working in them. And that’s in an area with the worst rates in the country.

@rookiemere

To be fair *@Oaktree55* I believe the lack of testing is more down to general incompetence than a sinister government plot, but it is odd that they haven't updated symptoms guidelines for DCs. Many DCs - including my own - had to get a test due to a cough that was clearly due to a cold, but one friends DD was off due to general malaise and a bad headache and sore stomach - and apparently that illness was doing the rounds at school. I suspect her DD was much more likely to have covid than the rest of the hacking class, but as she didn't fit the symptom list and as we're constantly being told not to test unnecessarily, we'll never know.

Unfortunately coughs that appear to be "clearly due to a cold" can be covid - see www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4040140-anyone-had-a-child-teen-test-positive.

I agree testing will be missing some who only have the stomach symptoms and headache though.

Apologies if someone else mentioned above but I see Johnson said today that having schools open "put a lot more load on the risk factor” when explaining why infection rates were still rising in lockdown areas.

In case a comparison is interesting, my friends who are university lecturers tell me that all the online delivery and lecture recording is being done at the lecturers' personal cost. That is using their personal computers, webcam and software and their home internet connection.

@notevenat20

In case a comparison is interesting, my friends who are university lecturers tell me that all the online delivery and lecture recording is being done at the lecturers' personal cost. That is using their personal computers, webcam and software and their home internet connection.

Where did this spring from?

Anyway, to respond, my friend who works for a local university has been provided with laptop.
My husband who works on government IT has work laptop and they pay for his secure specialised broadband.

I'm using my own laptop and webcam and for working from home bought a proper keyboard, mouse, riser and lumbar cushion because work was doing my back in.

Plus I used my own mobile to call students.

Don't assume that state teachers are being given their own kit.

During lockdown we used our own computers, our own mobiles and landline for welfare checks. I was offered a school tablet but don't think I would be able to prepare online learning on it. (2 state school teachers here). I've known other teachers buy whiteboards.

@RepeatSwan

Apologies if someone else mentioned above but I see Johnson said today that having schools open "put a lot more load on the risk factor” when explaining why infection rates were still rising in lockdown areas.

Oh they know, they know.

@Attictroll if schools are told to close they cannot ignore this and carry on. Even the Independent Sector, their Insurabce would be invalid!!

I also used my own phone, internet and laptop.
However I also have 3 children who need my laptop for their own school work.

Eventually what is likely to happen this winter is that masks will finally be mandated (hastened by PHE formal recognition of airborne spread and consequential workplace H&S implications for staff). Local lockdowns will become widespread and in many areas the 2weeks on 2 weeks off will become the norm to enable smaller class sizes. Germany has just closed schools and kindergartens in one area today. France is seeing imminent problems. It’s not rocket science we’re just unfortunately pushing things to the wire until we need emergency reactive measures instead of proper planning. Don’t forget our Government is still pushing the line that schools don’t increase transmission but there is only so long they can do this particularly given the information which is coming to light.

As a teacher and a parent, I'm not willing schools to close.

I work in a large secondary school and we have and continue to work very hard to maintain bubbles. We have had a handful of positive cases among pupils (I think 4/1500) and that caused about 35 children to need to isolate. No staff had to because of the way we are doing things. Overall, despite the restrictions, it's 'business as usual' and we are focussing on teaching, learning and closing the gaps caused by lockdown.

My son is in primary and they have had no cases at all. 1 teacher had to isolate because, outside school, she had been in contact with someone who tested positive.

From what I am seeing, children are thriving being back in school and parents are appreciative of everything we are doing.

@PumpkinPie2016 surely as a teacher and educated individual you are also hoping that some decent measures based on science are brought into school (as a workplace at the very least). As a parent I’d hope so or else why bother to outsource education????

@PumpkinPie2016 at the very least I hope you look into the White House cluster to understand why you can work as hard as you like to ensure bubbles are maintained but put groups together unmasked in close proximity defies all “working hard”.

I take it you aren’t a teacher of Science or Maths

I’m literally done with exchanges with seemingly or hopefully intelligent individuals who cannot grasp the basics. The White House cluster occurred despite daily testing yet these “intelligent” individuals on Mumsnet supposedly Teaching Staff (let’s hope not) think bubbles are maintainable.

Mind boggles. Let’s all homeschool it’s preferable to the standard of teaching it seems in some areas!!!

Oak wow just wow!

People are allowed to have a different opinion to you!

Your responses are completely unappropriate!

The only people I know who want schools closed are on MN. Everyone I know is thrilled they are open

Same here.

*inappropriate

@Timeforanotherusername it’s not an opinion it’s fact based on data!

@Timeforanotherusername people need to ask themselves if our educational establishments are complicit with Government gaslighting what do we have left?

I’m all for honesty. If the dialogue is “kids catch, spread this and we’re not taking mitigation steps in schools because we’re British and we don’t like masks” then fine let people choose based on honesty.

Don’t lie and don’t let our Educators become complicit in the deceit. If we do Education is dead.

What's fact? You questioning someone's intelligence and professionalism?

I see someone who has resorted to personal attacks. And when you do that you lose the argument.

This very long but interesting threads ends with the call for masks in classrooms.

mobile.twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1312392762445066243

But again it refers to '50% class sizes in Germany' and I really worry about our crazy school approach