It feels like people on MN are willing schools to close

[Marcellemouse]

Lots of threads being really negative about schools reopening. These have been largely started by teachers, the latest one being about a gagging order on the BBC. My 2 and every other DC I know are thriving on schools opening again. DS actually stands a chance of doing well and getting back on track with GCSES. DC are happy and animated again. Their teachers have been fantastic, I'm massively impressed. Friends of mine who are secondary teachers are positive and happy to be back teaching in school instead of home learning. I just get a different vibe in RL than on MN about schools. What's the reality?

Maybe. The Guardian runs stories that are too emotive for me, I generally avoid it especially atm. (I stick with R4)

I'm a pregnant teacher and am really enjoying being back properly. Just being extra careful with hand washing etc.

@notevenat20

More of a cost than losing a teacher, a parent or a friend's parent to covid-19? Which will be a lifelong cost, not a temporary measure for a few hours a day.

I am not sure it is reasonable to describe a child's school days as just a few hours a day. They are formative in a fundamental way.

You always have to weigh up the chance of something happening and how bad it is. I drive my car every day even though being brutally mutilated by a car accident is possible.

Have any teachers at all died from covid in the UK so far? Parents of school age children are largely under 60 so are at very little risk of dying. Similarly there appear to be few teachers over 60, at least in the state sector. Those old men who married young women may be somewhat more nervous however.

Speak for yourself and count yourself lucky.

There are a fair number of extremely clinically vulnerable parents of school age children who were previously shielding. Including mums, like me.

So fucking glib. Old men, indeed.

There are also quite a few vulnerable teachers.

Maybe you could have a go at exercising the brain cell before you post?

Omg @herecomesthsun I missed that. Well I married a younger man but he is the ECV one and apparently 10% ecv have kids under 16.
It is a stressful time for ecv in high risk areas especially.

We aren't in a high area. Not yet anyway.

We are all watching the figures and crossing out fingers.

It is nice for the kids to be back for a bit.

I am however wondering whether I should move out of the family home.

Our area is low too and thankfully figures are reducing.
My dh doesn't really seemed bothered and I think I am more cautious than him.
Hope you can stay well. @herecomesthsun

The problem is that with masks and SD in school we are heading for a different lot of trouble. The key question is how do we want to balance the happiness and future of our children against the safety of those who look after them.

This is such a daft comment @notevenat20. How can you balance the happiness and future of children against the safety of staff if there aren't enough who are well?

If I become ill I will not be working at all until I am completely better, whether that's in school or from home.

...or the mental health impact of the adults around them becoming seriously ill/dying. As in the article posted above, when areas are hit badly the effects on adult family members DO affect the children as well. Especially if they percieve/worry that they are the route of transmission through school.

@notevenat20 retirement age for teachers is 67. It’s true many take early retirement because it’s so shit in schools even at the best of times, but you can’t just say ‘oh well there aren’t many’. The government say they should stay until 67, so they should make it as safe as possible for them to do so, not ‘organise‘ things So that just going to work is a high risk actuvity.

Speak for yourself and count yourself lucky. There are a fair number of extremely clinically vulnerable parents of school age children who were previously shielding. Including mums, like me. So fucking glib. Old men, indeed. There are also quite a few vulnerable teachers.

I too was shielding. But the point is that from a national policy perspective you do sadly have to look at numbers rather than individuals.

notevenat20 retirement age for teachers is 67. It’s true many take early retirement because it’s so shit in schools even at the best of times, but you can’t just say ‘oh well there aren’t many’. The government say they should stay until 67, so they should make it as safe as possible for them to do so, not ‘organise‘ things So that just going to work is a high risk actuvity.

There were according to the govt 2.6% of teachers over 60 in 2019. So that's a large number but a small proportion.

The point isn't that one option is great and another one is terrible. The govt needs to weigh up the pros and cons nationally for each option. The risk to teachers over 60 is clear. The risk to the mental health of children not being allowed near their friends or not getting full education is also pretty clear. There is a long list of pros and cons on both sides.

I guess my only opinion for those arguing on either the pro or con side is to not ignore the immensely powerful arguments on the other side.

@notevenat20

Without SD or masks in schools, we're heading for trouble.

The problem is that with masks and SD in school we are heading for a different lot of trouble. The key question is how do we want to balance the happiness and future of our children against the safety of those who look after them.

Most children and teenagers are not stupid or callous. They will know that wearing masks protects them and those around them. By telling them they don't need to wear masks in school we are sending the message that their teachers don't matter. Aren't worthy of protecting. And neither are the pupils' vulnerable loved ones. I think that is storing up trouble much more than asking those who can to wear masks when they can for the good of everyone.

So maybe the answer then is for early retirement packages to be available for those over 60 who don't feel safe continuing at work. If you leave early without an early retirement arrangement you can be very badly off. When it reaches me, the retirement age will be 68. I have never met a teacher of 64/5 other than one in senior management.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/330227

And yes, there have been teachers who have died of Covid in the UK.

ONS said 65 education staff have died with coronavirus, of which 43 were women and 22 were men, as of April 20.

@notevenat20

Speak for yourself and count yourself lucky. There are a fair number of extremely clinically vulnerable parents of school age children who were previously shielding. Including mums, like me. So fucking glib. Old men, indeed. There are also quite a few vulnerable teachers.

I too was shielding. But the point is that from a national policy perspective you do sadly have to look at numbers rather than individuals.

There is no good reason at all why ECV families shouldn't be allowed to home school temporarily without penalties.

Unless they fancy getting shot of a few of us.

People suggesting that teachers don’t understand the importance of kids being in school should think a bit more carefully about that

People suggesting that teachers don’t understand the importance of kids being in school should think a bit more carefully about that

Teachers aren't one amorphous mass. It is important not to over generalise.

There are certainly some teachers who only mention the costs of keeping schools open without addresses the costs of having them closed.

There is no good reason at all why ECV families shouldn't be allowed to home school temporarily without penalties.

I guess one difficulty will be resources. Can teachers both support them and the children in the school?

Home schooling is dealt with by parents, not by the school.

@notevenat20

There is no good reason at all why ECV families shouldn't be allowed to home school temporarily without penalties.

I guess one difficulty will be resources. Can teachers both support them and the children in the school?

They don't really need to - at least for us. We have 9 A levels and 6 degrees between us - and other qualifications. And experience teaching at various levels. I took early retirement in the summer and am on a pause before going back full time. We could easily do this well, and our kids were doing well over the summer.

Ironically, the reason I don't want to take the kids out of school - register the - is socialisation. I want them to be in school but not right now. Come the spring

• there will be more knowledge about how the virus affects different pre-existing conditions
• and more knowledge about treatments for it
• there might be a vaccine (or might be one before next winter)
• we will know a lot more about how it spreads in schools
• the government in the light of this might belatedly put some sensible safeguards in place

The teachers really could just leave me to teach. My kids aren't in exam years.

It is nonsense.

Homicidally dangerous nonsense that will ruin lives.

sorry that should say "deregister them!

Teachers aren't one amorphous mass. It is important not to over generalise.

Yes but we all have something in common - we spend our working lives in the classroom teaching kids, which is what you are concerned about them missing out on. We see the vulnerable ones daily, and deal with their issues. We have child protection training every year and are constantly reminded that we are front line in picking up issues. We report safeguarding concerns all the time. So the suggestion that teachers might not understand the importance of school for kids when it is literally our job, something we have chosen to do, is just patronising bollocks.

There are certainly some teachers who only mention the costs of keeping schools open without addresses the costs of having them closed

Actually, I think you’d find the vast majority of teachers are acutely aware of the costs of having schools closed.

Which teachers did you mean?