It feels like people on MN are willing schools to close

[Marcellemouse]

Lots of threads being really negative about schools reopening. These have been largely started by teachers, the latest one being about a gagging order on the BBC. My 2 and every other DC I know are thriving on schools opening again. DS actually stands a chance of doing well and getting back on track with GCSES. DC are happy and animated again. Their teachers have been fantastic, I'm massively impressed. Friends of mine who are secondary teachers are positive and happy to be back teaching in school instead of home learning. I just get a different vibe in RL than on MN about schools. What's the reality?

@noblegiraffe

So that’s 67% over 50. As in that very same sentence it’s states 50% over 50 and 17% over 60.

My eyes 😫

I’m not surprised that is the only thing you took from the entire conversation. Meh you can have it.

My point is pretty clear though. No matter was LA, schools Gov do it will never be enough to satisfy scared teachers.

I’m not sure that ‘how scared teachers are’ is a good measure of how successful a school re-opening plan is.

I'm fucking scared. I have to walk across the school in a stream of hundreds of teenagers who won't wear masks, though they've been asked. Today I had to do this four times due to form being at the opposite side of the building, break duty, cover then having to work in an open area as I'm kicked out of my room at the end of the day, daily. Positive cases and hundreds out in my school too.

I don't want schools closed.

I want schools open safely.

Neither of these things are happening at the moment, and they don't contradict.

I am yet to hear a reasonable explanation as to why groups above 6 people are illegal in every sphere, and everyone is particularly at risk in enclosed spaces with little ventilation - except in schools.

Anyone?

@CallmeAngelina

I am yet to hear a reasonable explanation as to why groups above 6 people are illegal in every sphere, and everyone is particularly at risk in enclosed spaces with little ventilation - except in schools.

Anyone?

You clearly just want schools to close

Yeah, that's me. A lazy fucker.

@noblegiraffe

So that’s 67% over 50. As in that very same sentence it’s states 50% over 50 and 17% over 60.

My eyes 😫

This would be hilarious (if it weren't so alarming).

I am yet to hear a reasonable explanation as to why groups above 6 people are illegal in every sphere, and everyone is particularly at risk in enclosed spaces with little ventilation - except in schools.

Gatherings of more than 6 aren't illegal in every sphere. There are plenty of workplaces with more than 6 people and their Covid secure set up is a load of bollox.

But you're just going to say yeah but teachers are worse off.

But you're just going to say yeah but teachers are worse off.

You know what I'm going to say?
That's clever.

Well there are literally dozens of examples of where groups of 6 aren't illegal.

Pubs, restaurants, factories, youth groups, organised sport, other workplaces.

Do you think that all those places have proper social distancing and PPE?

@Byallmeans

First off, you wrote that 67% of Italian teachers were over 60, when you actually meant that 67% were over 50- that clears that up.

Also, my understanding from what teachers have posted is that teachers in England who were shielding do not now have the option to be signed off on the grounds of vulnerability in a pandemic. The only option is to take sick leave, and this is subject to various HR reviews and measures. Even leaving the job on account of risk would be difficult unless put into motion a term or so in advance.

The Italian system does seem to allow teachers to be signed off, even if it takes 2 doctors, so that seems to have more leeway (though I am not an expert on how this works).

Also, the rationale for spending 2.9 billion euros on preventative measures in Italian education was fear. The whole nation were very afraid because they were hit hard and early, their health service was overwhelmed and they suffered a great deal as a nation.

Accordingly, when it came to opening up, they took preventative measures in schools extremely seriously and devoted considerable thought and planning to getting things right.

However, since this was being executed against a background of pain and fear, it is really understandable that Italian teachers, many of whom are over 50, are very wary about putting themselves at risk again.

This does not however prove that their preventative measures were not worthwhile. These measures are not primarily there as a cosmetic exercise to re-assure the teachers (though you'd hope they would help). They are there to make the educational system work safely and to limit further spread of infection.

I am really pleased that Italy seems to be doing well, up to now, numbers wise. Apparently, having lived through a very difficult spring and summer, the naturally individualistic Italians have abided very carefully by government advice. wearing masks etc. Good luck to them.

I am yet to hear a reasonable explanation as to why groups above 6 people are illegal in every sphere, and everyone is particularly at risk in enclosed spaces with little ventilation - except in schools

The main feature of schools is that they are critically important for the whole country. This hugely affects the decision making.

The second is that children appear not to be as infectious as adults. The proof of the pudding is in the eating of course and so far teachers have not been infected in large numbers by the children in their classes.

Scouts have to wear masks indoors and stay 2m apart. Funnily enough the same age kids don't have to were masks at school or stay 2m apart.

Scouts have to wear masks indoors and stay 2m apart. Funnily enough the same age kids don't have to were masks at school or stay 2m apart

That's not a government decision. That's a decision taken by the scouting organisation, and will vary from group to group.

I can give you plenty of other examples where this isn't the case.

The rule of 6 only applies n a small number of scenarios, certainly not every sphere.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating of course and so far teachers have not been infected in large numbers by the children in their classes.

You have no idea if that's the case. The stats last week showed that 44% of infections were in educational establishments (not counting universities).

@Parkrunmum

Well there are literally dozens of examples of where groups of 6 aren't illegal.

Pubs, restaurants, factories, youth groups, organised sport, other workplaces.

Do you think that all those places have proper social distancing and PPE?

They are supposed to have proper social distancing or other measures.

@CallmeAngelina

The proof of the pudding is in the eating of course and so far teachers have not been infected in large numbers by the children in their classes.

You have no idea if that's the case. The stats last week showed that 44% of infections were in educational establishments (not counting universities).

Our head was pretty clear that if schools shut it'll be due to teachers being off.

They are supposed to have proper social distancing or other measures.

Supposed to yes, schools are supposed to.

It's a load of rubbish in a lot of places. Not just schools.

You have no idea if that's the case. The stats last week showed that 44% of infections were in educational establishments (not counting universities).

You are right that I don't personally have any inside information. But the 44% stat (could you give a source) doesn't tell us much given that all children go to school.

A more relevant figure would be the percentage of teachers who have been infected versus non teachers. Is that stat available?

Schools aren’t supposed to have social distancing.

The covid-secure regulations which apply to other workplaces don’t apply to schools.

I don't know where you've been but the government does not expect children to be two meters apart at all times. Safety measures have to be in place, such as desks facing the front, but there is no measures to have all children/teenagers to be two meters apart at all times. First of all you'd need classes double the physical size, which is not possible, or have pupils part time, to which the government said no.

I work in a secondary school with 1500 pupils who have to move from one end of the school to another within a short period of time, use the loos, canteen, do PE, etc. There is scattered start and finish but many pupils are moving around the school at the same time, and let me tell you it's a lot easier to monitor a small group of Scouts who actually want to be there than hundreds of teenagers moving around a school building.

M

My eyes 😫
This would be hilarious (if it weren't so alarming)

Are you this easily alarmed normally callme? Gosh I bet your nerves are bad. Maybe you should have a lie down in a dark room for a while.

When posters start picking at grammar or now maths equations you know they are scrapping the barrel...

PP - oh I wish we had the Italian model they have it so right

Italian teachers - ‘help they are trying to kill us’

PP - but you have it soooooo much better than U.K. teachers - an American said so.

Well actually, I haven't got Covid guidance for every workplace in front of me, but I'm not sure they all are supposed to have social distancing.

Places are supposed to be Covid secure. That doesn't mean social distancing or PPE. Hardly anywhere is Covid secure in reality.

The truth is if everywhere was Co I'd secure the county would grind to a halt once again.

@CallmeAngelina

The proof of the pudding is in the eating of course and so far teachers have not been infected in large numbers by the children in their classes.

You have no idea if that's the case. The stats last week showed that 44% of infections were in educational establishments (not counting universities).

Have you got a link?