It feels like people on MN are willing schools to close

[Marcellemouse]

Lots of threads being really negative about schools reopening. These have been largely started by teachers, the latest one being about a gagging order on the BBC. My 2 and every other DC I know are thriving on schools opening again. DS actually stands a chance of doing well and getting back on track with GCSES. DC are happy and animated again. Their teachers have been fantastic, I'm massively impressed. Friends of mine who are secondary teachers are positive and happy to be back teaching in school instead of home learning. I just get a different vibe in RL than on MN about schools. What's the reality?

[quote herecomesthsun]@Byallmeans

You asked for examples of what has been done in other countries; this was a post of mine from 23rd September:

herecomesthsun

Look at what they have done successfully in Italy and pursue those ideas.

I say this partially to answer comments about how realistic ideas might be.

If the Italians are capable of planning, costing and implementing a successful plan of test and trace and re-opening their schools then I think we can potentially do this in Britain.

It would require political commitment, a degree of imagination (the Italians have explored re-purposing buildings) and financial backing. But it would be possible.[/quote]
Pretty much what I was going to say. Thank you.

@notevenat20

I think it's clear and reasonable as a post. The OP has a feeling that some posters on MN actually want schools to close and wanted to discuss it and hear people's views. Nothing wrong with that.

The OP just rather inaccurate in the opening lines:

Lots of threads being really negative about schools reopening. These have been largely started by teachers,

I can see how this might have touched a sore nerve with a number of teachers, whose intelligent concerns about schools have been borne out by the events of the past few weeks.

Perhaps the OP did not realise that there has been some misrepresentation of teachers and their motivations etc. in the media? And that the opening post reads unfortunately in that context?

I think the problem is we all want the best for our personal circumstances. Being off school is damaging to my DCs education, mental health and and well being. My eldest has GCSEs coming up and we don't want him to face the fiasco that happened to this years GCSE cohort. My DC do not thrive on Home learning (I don't know of any DC who do)

Posted too soon.
Certain posters have been negative about schools reopening for their own reasons. I hate the way covid is causing such hatred amongst us.

@herecomesthsun

I understand that some teachers here feel got at. But this is mumsnet not teachersnet. Those of us who have had negative experiences relating to schools are perfectly in their right to talk about it and ask for support or opinions.

@notevenat20

And those of us who are sympathetic to the teachers, having read the way that they have been attacked in the media, are entitled to defend this noble profession, and point out when other posters are being unfair.

And those of us who are sympathetic to the teachers, having read the way that they have been attacked in the media, are entitled to defend this noble profession, and point out when other posters are being unfair.

Of course. Although it is really important to distinguish criticism of teaching as a profession or, god forbid, all teachers and criticism of individual teachers and schools.

@Marcellemouse

Yes, but it doesn't help any of that to accuse teachers of "being really negative" when they are expressing reasonable concerns about safety in the workplace.

It is very unusual to have the set up of 30 people in a tiny room for an hour, in the UK at this time, indeed it would be illegal!

Surely we should listen to teachers' concerns about this with a bit more tolerance, rather than accusing them of "being really negative" when they only want the same level of workplace safety that everyone else has by law?

If we instead ask for better safety procedures in schools, those same schools will have a much better chance of staying open. Which is what you are emphatically saying you would like.

And personally, I don't think there is any need for hatred. Presumably we want the same thing, which is for our children to get the best education they can have, and that end is best served by supporting teachers in what is currently a very challenging situation in many ways.

Certain posters have been negative about schools reopening for their own reasons.

Bloody hell you’re still at it. What do you think those “reasons” might be?

In relation to the topic of closing schools, the problem is that over lockdown some schools (including DC's) really let everyone down. This hasn't helped the mood in these conversations.

My personal view is that it would be more constructive for teachers to reply along the lines of "I am really sorry this happened with your school. "

And then if they want to "My experience for the school I work at was completely different in the following ways."

In a similar way that it's unhelpful for anyone to criticise all teachers, it's really not helpful for teachers to say that all teachers worked reallly hard over the lockdown. That just winds everyone up when they know that wasn't the case for their school.

@notevenat20

In relation to the topic of closing schools, the problem is that over lockdown some schools (including DC's) really let everyone down. This hasn't helped the mood in these conversations.

My personal view is that it would be more constructive for teachers to reply along the lines of "I am really sorry this happened with your school. "

And then if they want to "My experience for the school I work at was completely different in the following ways."

In a similar way that it's unhelpful for anyone to criticise all teachers, it's really not helpful for teachers to say that all teachers worked reallly hard over the lockdown. That just winds everyone up when they know that wasn't the case for their school.

But you don't like hearing constructive things from teachers. How would saying sorry about that help?

But you don't like hearing constructive things from teachers. How would saying sorry about that help?

This doesn't make sense to me. I am of course happy to hear constructive ideas. I might not agree with them of course.

What I don't want to hear is that every single teacher worked really really hard over lockdown and every school is fantastic. If teachers could acknowledge that some schools are shit and some teachers did as little as they could get away with over lockdown, which of course is the same in every profession, then I think some progress will have been made. This idea that teaching is the unique profession where everyone is wonderful just doesn't help conversation.

@notevenat20

But you don't like hearing constructive things from teachers. How would saying sorry about that help?

This doesn't make sense to me. I am of course happy to hear constructive ideas. I might not agree with them of course.

What I don't want to hear is that every single teacher worked really really hard over lockdown and every school is fantastic. If teachers could acknowledge that some schools are shit and some teachers did as little as they could get away with over lockdown, which of course is the same in every profession, then I think some progress will have been made. This idea that teaching is the unique profession where everyone is wonderful just doesn't help conversation.

How would it help for me to apologise to you because you felt your school wasn’t doing enough during lockdown. It would be far more productive for you to have that conversation directly with your school?

Really good news today that Chris whitty confirmed that the infection rate in children is not increasing......
Current rise in cases despite schools being back young adults as the largest group

Still the same teacher bashers droning on and no links to threads backing up the claims.

Well, there's a surprise.

What age did he define young adults as being, do you know? I did not hear the briefing.

There are certain posters I don't engage with, because my stress levels are too high at the moment (possibly partly due to those certain posters). I admire people like noblegiraffe who has the determination and courage to fight her corner time after time, but I also worry about the effect it has on her, having to refute post after horrible post. Sometimes I speak my piece, but other times, I feel like Sisyphus pushing a boulder up a hill in Hades, over and over.

[quote herecomesthsun]@Byallmeans

You asked for examples of what has been done in other countries; this was a post of mine from 23rd September:

herecomesthsun

Look at what they have done successfully in Italy and pursue those ideas.

I say this partially to answer comments about how realistic ideas might be.

If the Italians are capable of planning, costing and implementing a successful plan of test and trace and re-opening their schools then I think we can potentially do this in Britain.

It would require political commitment, a degree of imagination (the Italians have explored re-purposing buildings) and financial backing. But it would be possible.[/quote]
I think you should read how Italian teachers feel about that tbh...

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/13/older-teachers-in-italy-fear-covid-19-risks-as-schools-return

Their health minister seems to think that age isn’t a risk factor

Seems the grass isn’t always greener

@Codexdivinchi

You not teaching today noble?

Clever post, did you really think you had "caught out" a teacher posting on mumsnet when in the middle of teaching GCSE French or whatever? FWIW I go on my phone in my break more than I used to as I chat sit and chat to colleagues!

As I can't sit and chat

Certain posters have been negative about schools reopening for their own reasons
Still at it then I see.

My job is easier when I have a full class of pupils in front of me to teach properly. My days are much more enjoyable when I get to see the students.

I also have concerns that the government has failed schools, school staff and children in their awful handling of this situation.

I look forward to hearing how a teacher loving their job but having concerns about the strategic oversight of schools in a pandemic equals wanting them shut for my own reasons (because let's face it, what seems to count for wanting schools to be shut is nothing more than some 'vibes' and people discussing the operation of schools).

Marcellemouse

What a load of shit posted by you and the other usual suspects.

@notevenat20

Ok, well as someone who isn't a teacher, I am really sorry you had a tough time. My experience as a parent was different, and I can indeed see that individual schools and indeed teachers will inevitably be different.

However, while very important that is a different issue to the one we are discussing here. It might be a topic for a separate thread?

To get back to this comment in the OP "Lots of threads being really negative about schools reopening. These have been largely started by teachers,"

Well, I would say this isn't borne out by my experience, having been very interested in this topic.

I think the teachers on this board have been realistic and understandably concerned, but I wouldn't call them negative.

However, some other posters for whatever "own reasons" they might have, have said all sorts of things about teachers, and this has seemed to me to be generally a bit counterproductive. These is very pertinent to the opening post, as there have been a lot of these, well, very negative comments, saying that the teachers are posting on these boards that they don't want schools to be open. This is generally not well substantiated, looking at what is being written by posters saying they are teachers themselves.

I think working in schools at the moment is probably very tough and when the teachers on these boards, and in the media, say they are working a heck of a lot of overtime, I completely believe them. They are personally facing a high degree of risk of infection and they have completely rethought a lot of the ways in which they work. It has been very difficult.. Nonetheless, many teachers are also saying how pleased they are to be back at school and to see the children again.

So, surely you can see that it would annoy a lot of teachers to say they are being negative. Putting words into their mouths about school closure, when they are the very people keeping schools open, seems both inaccurate and unfair.

@FrippEnos

Marcellemouse

What a load of shit posted by you and the other usual suspects.

Yup. ;)

@Byallmeans

It would be really interesting to write down the measures put in place in Italy (costing 2.9 billions euros) and the measures put in place in the UK (no funding allocated) and get teachers over 50, from both countries, to vote which system they would prefer.

My hunch is that the detailed and thoughtful provision in Italy would win, albeit it still involves a job coming into direct contact with people in a pandemic. So It's understandable that even Italian teachers are a bit apprehensive.