It feels like people on MN are willing schools to close

[Marcellemouse]

Lots of threads being really negative about schools reopening. These have been largely started by teachers, the latest one being about a gagging order on the BBC. My 2 and every other DC I know are thriving on schools opening again. DS actually stands a chance of doing well and getting back on track with GCSES. DC are happy and animated again. Their teachers have been fantastic, I'm massively impressed. Friends of mine who are secondary teachers are positive and happy to be back teaching in school instead of home learning. I just get a different vibe in RL than on MN about schools. What's the reality?

When a poster post lies persistently and never produces any evidence for statements it's hard to think it is anything other than goady fuckery.

When such posters post genuinely, that would be the time.

What is a non-genuine concern or complaint? One where the poster is actually not worried or upset by their experience but is just trying to upset people?

When someone states that there are numerous threads started by teachers saying they want schools to be closed and then can't find any threads that state that, surely that is a goady thread not raising a concern thread.

There don't seem to be teachers posting that schools should be shut. But there are persistent posters alleging this. Without evidence.

It annoys people and I wish they would desist.

When someone states that there are numerous threads started by teachers saying they want schools to be closed and then can't find any threads that state that, surely that is a goady thread not raising a concern thread

There are a lot of posts from people who seem to be teachers describing the terrible safety risks associated with having schools open. And quite a few suggesting that schools should be open part-time. Maybe they were thinking of those?

On another note, "goady" seems to be a uniquely MN term. I literally never hear it in my normal life. We have our own dialect!

@notevenat20

When someone states that there are numerous threads started by teachers saying they want schools to be closed and then can't find any threads that state that, surely that is a goady thread not raising a concern thread

There are a lot of posts from people who seem to be teachers describing the terrible safety risks associated with having schools open. And quite a few suggesting that schools should be open part-time. Maybe they were thinking of those?

On another note, "goady" seems to be a uniquely MN term. I literally never hear it in my normal life. We have our own dialect!

But there are safety risks with opening schools, especially when nothing has been spent to make them safer.

So people have been suggesting modifications to make them safer.

Not closing schools. That seems to be a diverting tactic put in by other people, possibly to derail the discussions.

(How many times?)

But that isn't saying schools should close.

And do you not think it is a good idea to highlight safety issues in a school where it is not just teachers there but children.

No, much better to blame teachers when schools shut due to staff or pupil illness (but why didn't anyone warn us??!!)

If just 2 cases in a year-group of 250 pupils can get the whole year-group sent home for 2 weeks, and yet the majority of year-groups are still in school, schools are clearly much safer than universities where the students live together.
My DC school seem happy that the pupils are there. And I am happy that they are there.

Simply saying I want schools open doesn’t make them stay open. It’s not fairy magic.

Making them safer makes them more likely to stay open. The people suggesting better safety measures recognise this. They do no want them closed.

But there are safety risks with opening schools, especially when nothing has been spent to make them safer. So people have been suggesting modifications to make them safer.Not closing schools. That seems to be a diverting tactic put in by other people, possibly to derail the discussions.

I don't know that this is accurate. My memory is of a number of posts describing schools as a death trap with no suggestion for how to improve things. Also I recall a number of posts where the suggested solution is children going to school less (e.g. part-time).

@notevenat20

But there are safety risks with opening schools, especially when nothing has been spent to make them safer. So people have been suggesting modifications to make them safer.Not closing schools. That seems to be a diverting tactic put in by other people, possibly to derail the discussions.

I don't know that this is accurate. My memory is of a number of posts describing schools as a death trap with no suggestion for how to improve things. Also I recall a number of posts where the suggested solution is children going to school less (e.g. part-time).

See I just searched the term "death trap" and can only so far find your post above.

My recollection is really different to yours, because what I remember in recent months is loads and loads of posts accusing the teachers of wanting schools to close or stay closed.

In response, I remember loads and loads of posts from teachers and ECV (or understandably worried) parents discussing the modifications they would like in schools in order for the re-opening to be safer.

And loads of requests that US4BS not to put words in other people's mouths. We can link to the threads if you don't believe me?

Or would you just like to accept graciously that this might have been happening?

See I just searched the term "death trap" and can only so far find your post above.

That's just silly. I didn't mean literally the words "death trap".

Or would you just like to accept graciously that this might have been happening?

It's not my memory of the many posts I have seen on schools in the last few weeks, no. But I am happy to agree to disagree of course.

Ok, you see I don't think people are using "death trap" type of language. I think that, as I suggested, they are more discussing that current arrangements aren't safe.

I think everyone would love things to be full time and as normal, but sadly we aren't living in normal times.

I also think there are people with an agenda, possibly to discredit teachers, who are describing teachers very negatively, and this has been going on for a few weeks, unfortunately.

It would be really helpful if open season on teachers could cease. I'm not the only person who has observed that teachers are under enough pressure right now and don't need unconstructive criticism. Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion, but it feels like there is a coordinated campaign by a pressure group or groups on this subject and I think a lot of posters are fed up with it, judging from the posts above.

I've raised the issue of how things are being done in other countries many times on these boards, and so have other people. This ideas could represent a constructive way forward.

The government has itself made the suggestion that at some point schools might open part time; and this would be better, in most people's opinion, than the government having to shut schools completely.

I can see that as an option this would be very difficult for many people. I am in the fortunate position of being able to home school and less fortunately am ECV. I would completely support schools staying open for other people's kids while mine stayed at home, if it came to it. This would mean those kids in school had more attention and more space, and I would be very happy to know that.

This is not the same as wanting all the schools to close.

I really value education and am happy to wrap myself around whatever plan the government comes up with, to try and make things work for my kids. However I really do want things to be as safe as possible, and really everyone will benefit from that, as schools will stay open more effectively in that scenario,

There are 38 pages of threads and I would guess most of them are about schools. It would take a lot of work to post links to them all, but I personally have made a lot of specific suggestions to make schools safer, and I would be happy to post some of these on this thread, if you like?

My memory is of a number of posts describing schools as a death trap with no suggestion for how to improve things.

Funny, my memory is of loads of suggestions, endlessly and repeatedly given for how to improve things.

The people holding their hands up saying ‘well if you’re not happy with how things are, that means you want schools closed’ weren’t teachers.

@Fetaliving

Simply saying I want schools open doesn’t make them stay open. It’s not fairy magic.

Making them safer makes them more likely to stay open. The people suggesting better safety measures recognise this. They do no want them closed.

How do you make them safer whilst still enabling children to actually go in to school?

That’s the catch 22 - you can’t.

You not teaching today noble?

How do you make them safer whilst still enabling children to actually go in to school?

By taking inspiration from all the countries that have done this.

@Fetaliving

How do you make them safer whilst still enabling children to actually go in to school?

By taking inspiration from all the countries that have done this.

Have you got any examples?

^DCs school have worked really hard^

^I'm so impressed with the communication and have the utmost respect for the leadership team^

^Their teachers have been fantastic, I'm massively impressed^

^Friends of mine who are secondary teachers are positive and happy to be back teaching^

This is NOT a teacher bashing thread. I was referring to the post about the gagging of the BBC in which the poster wanted to make a point of saying how unsafe schools are. I have read this thousands of times on here and am tired of the negativity.

So I did a quick search of the past 2 months and this was the OP of the first thread that came up. The poster was disappointed in the reopening of secondary schools, but if you read what they actually wrote, it is very detailed, and thoughtful. You come away knowing that they would like

-primary schools to open

-support for children who have particularly fallen behind

-home learning as on option (not necessarily for everyone) and this would also provide a fall back in there were further outbreaks

• safe transport arrangements

• masks

and they would also like a thoughtful discussion on these matters.

It is a post that has aged well, and this person (who isn't me) can be congratulated on their foresight.

This is the sort of thing that I remember from the discussions of the past 2 months.

Opening Post from 13th August 20:06:43

"I'm hoping for a sensible exchange of ideas on this.
I understand the importance of children missing out on learning, but I can't help but feel that a full reopening of all secondary schools in the UK at the same time is madness.
I strongly feel that it would have been better to spend time/money on making home learning a realistic and standardised solution, as well as putting plans in place for the children that need further support. That way if any future outbreaks happen we aren't just hoping for the best and blindly following this idea that "schools must be the last place to close no matter what."

I also can't get my head around the logistics, locally. The local secondary that my nephew attends (there are several large ones near to me) has over 1000 students, many rely on public transport to get there. With reduced space on transport due to social distancing, I wonder how children will actually all make it to school on time? Many schools are also not allowing children who are late to enter, to avoid the crossing of year group bubbles.

Throw also into the mix that many adult will be relying on the same transport to return to work. I'm genuinely wondering how on earth it is realistic?

I think primary and nursery schools are a different thing entirely, and obviously childcare is a factor then also. But putting 1000 teenagers/young adults + teacher staff into a building with no masks and no country-wide home learning plan if things go wrong, seems absolutely nuts to me.

Just wondering what others think about this?"

@Byallmeans

You asked for examples of what has been done in other countries; this was a post of mine from 23rd September:

herecomesthsun

Look at what they have done successfully in Italy and pursue those ideas.

I say this partially to answer comments about how realistic ideas might be.

If the Italians are capable of planning, costing and implementing a successful plan of test and trace and re-opening their schools then I think we can potentially do this in Britain.

It would require political commitment, a degree of imagination (the Italians have explored re-purposing buildings) and financial backing. But it would be possible.

@Codexdivinchi

You not teaching today noble?

Oh wow. This is pathetic. Why could you possibly be asking?

FYI I'm part time.

@Codexdivinchi

You not teaching today noble?

What was the purpose of this post? It actually comes across as really unpleasant.

I think it's clear and reasonable as a post. The OP has a feeling that some posters on MN actually want schools to close and wanted to discuss it and hear people's views. Nothing wrong with that.