Why are we okay with students being locked up in their dorms?

[JKRowlingIsMyQueen]

I just heard about the students in Manchester who are not allowed to leave their dorms.

Why on earth is this allowed to happen? So the rest of us who are not students are allowed to get pissed in a pub, get on a plane and travel abroad and back etc., but if you are a student you are not allowed to LEAVE your dorms?

What science are these kind of rules following? The science of Boris needing more ammo to blame young people for spreading the virus?

I'm losing hope.

@FelicisNox. Don't tell my DS he has to return home. He's ready for this adventure, odd as it may be. The very last thing he wants is a forced return to mummy and daddy.

@cantkeepawayforever yes I think it is a huge overreaction to lock down the whole halls when it should be more localised just as only certain flats in a regular block would isolate not the whole lot on principle. Also- it’s the rules etc but no one else in the country is being FORCED to isolate and locked in. Yes that means a lot of people aren’t doing it properly but ultimately students need this level of autonomy and we have to hope they would do the right thing.

@Bbq1

It's not right but didn't these students bring it on themselves? Bright 18 year olds didn't realise that if they partied, drank and whatever else while mixing freely in large groups of strangers that they were more likely to contract the virus?

Is there a reason you're assuming they all did that? As I understand it, it's the whole halls being quarantined because of where they live, meaning someone who didn't break any regulations but lives in the building is caught just the same as someone who flouted all of them.

To be clear, what i think should happen is this:

• Anybody who is proven to not be a close contact of anyone who has tested positive should be allowed to return home (possibly after a negative test, to rule out those who are independently asymptomatically positive).

• Everyone who is a close contact should be allowed to go home after 14 days of self-isolation.

• Halls should be re-organised to be as far as possible Covid-secure, with those who study together also living together in small groups, with strict SD present, and any local restrictions applied, plus regular cleaning etc.

• Geaching should resume wholly online, with reduiced fees and full rent rebates.

• Those who cannot study remotely - vets, medics, scientists, engineers, musicians - should either have their contact time broken into blocks e.g. 3 days of practicals in small groups followed by significant breaks while other small groups do theirs or should be very tightly 'bubbled' for both living and studying.

And then go again...

Also- it’s the rules etc but no one else in the country is being FORCED to isolate and locked in. Yes that means a lot of people aren’t doing it properly but ultimately students need this level of autonomy and we have to hope they would do the right thing.

It is now the law, so it is entirely reasonable to enforce it through the normal routes for enforcing all laws. It has moved on from being 'the rules' to being 'the law'.

@cantkeepawayforever

Also- it’s the rules etc but no one else in the country is being FORCED to isolate and locked in. Yes that means a lot of people aren’t doing it properly but ultimately students need this level of autonomy and we have to hope they would do the right thing.

It is now the law, so it is entirely reasonable to enforce it through the normal routes for enforcing all laws. It has moved on from being 'the rules' to being 'the law'.

It sounds like you think what's happening at MMU is the normal route for enforcing all laws? Could you say more?

@cantkeepawayforever so you'd be happy for someone to lock your front door for 2 weeks. Because Fred down the road is positive. Weird. I'd be fuming.

@MintyMabel it is breaking HSE law, I think using cable ties to ensure they can’t use the fire exits is definitely an obstruction!

No, I am not. But I am saying that it is not normal to enforce laws simply by 'hoping people do the right thing'.

So it is not reasonable to lock students in. However, it is entirely reasonable to have a police or security presence to remind students of the need to self-isolate if instructed to due to being a close contact, and to record and if necessary fine those who break that law.

@cantkeepawayforever actually the law states you must self isolate if you are tested positive for Covid or are contracted and told to isolate by NHS Trace & Trace. Neither of these applies to these students.

Interestingly GMP said there wasn't a police presence.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/this-not-policing-issue-mmu-19006899

It is now the law, so it is entirely reasonable to enforce it through the normal routes for enforcing all laws. It has moved on from being 'the rules' to being 'the law'.*

It isn't the law to shut down all blocks because universitys feel like it

Unless you can prove they had contact them no.

[quote mumsneedwine]@cantkeepawayforever so you'd be happy for someone to lock your front door for 2 weeks. Because Fred down the road is positive. Weird. I'd be fuming.[/quote]
I have said repeatedly that no, locking the door is not right.

If students can prove they are not close contacts so do not have to self-isolate (and if they have been tested to check that they are not asymptomatically positive from another infection source), then they should be allowed to leave to go home.

However, if students who have to self isolate legally due to being close contacts attempt to leave self isolation, then it is reasonable to deploy some of the force of law to ensure that if possible they do not, and if they do, that they receive the appropriate fine.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/09/28/inhumane-lockdown-rules-scottish-students-breach-human-rights/

During lockdown did you have security guards outside your door? Police?
When did you last go without food for 5 days?
When were you last threatened with your future being ruined?
When were you last Falsely Imprisoned?
When did you last do your entire weeks washing in a sink with nowhere to dry it?

Read up.on what gas gone on in a so called democratic country.
Who decided they could treat students like that? Who's authority?

Nobody needs to "suck up" anything illegally done to them.

Christ the absolute hatred for anyone not themselves on here is overflowing. This isn't going away, there is no miracle cure. This is very far down on the list of diseases that are out there threatening us, the responses by all governments in UK have been random, unsupportable and unviable. They cant even understand thier own guidelines as they change them so often.

The damage that has been done to innocents in all areas of life in the name of the great god Covid is immeasurable and is a stain on UK forever

@Willow2017

Oh dear you appear to have quoted a Scottish news source for a Scottish issue.

Take that up with Sturgeon and her legion of indyref2 morons.

That’s an entirely devolved department in Holyrood, but people don’t want to acknowledge that and just default blame boris.

The poor little mute students should he a little braver and “just walk out”

They had the balls to throw missiles, bottles, bricks at police at the demo and not wear masks- they have the minerals to do this and force their way out surely?

It is wrong on so many levels, I wrote to my MP about it last night. My DD not affected (yet) but I feel so strongly for those who are.

However, there remains the risk - that it appears everyone is happy to be taken - that those who have not yet been identified as positive or close contacts ARE infected, and will carry the infection home or to the wider community around the university, in exactly the same way as clusters in Australia and elsewhere have started due to people leaving quarantine.

However, if students who have to self isolate legally due to being close contacts attempt to leave self isolation, then it is reasonable to deploy some of the force of law to ensure that if possible they do not, and if they do, that they receive the appropriate fine.

The force of law implies that whatever force is being deployed should actually be legal though, no? As opposed to something the university, the council or both have just made up. And ideally that force would be the police!

Anyone know if there is a petition or anything?

EXCUSE ME, but were none of you ever 18 and giddy with freedom? You learn as you go. I wasn't very wild at uni, but I certainly didn't pay much attention to rules either.

Was everyone happy early in the pandemic for cruise ships to be quarantined? Flights full of people quarantined? Does everyone believe that what e.g. Australia does in terms of quarantine is wrong? Or is it ONLY wrong when these infection control procedures are applied to students?

@cantkeepawayforever I agree. That is exactly what should have happened. But it didn't. Hundreds of people were locked into buildings. With no right to leave. With 2 hours notice. Locked in. Denial of Liberty. I was so angry as this was worthy of a police state. Ironically the police were not involved (as they'd have known it was illegal). Private security firms enforced it. Again, really ? My grandparents fought wars go prevent this.
And to cable tie fire escapes ?? That's our kids so as parents we are angry.

@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer

However, if students who have to self isolate legally due to being close contacts attempt to leave self isolation, then it is reasonable to deploy some of the force of law to ensure that if possible they do not, and if they do, that they receive the appropriate fine.

The force of law implies that whatever force is being deployed should actually be legal though, no? As opposed to something the university, the council or both have just made up. And ideally that force would be the police!

Absolutely.

Just as a question - what is the legal basis for ANY quarantine that has happened at earlier points in the pandemic? What is the current legal basis, for example, on the quarantine of nursing homes?

@mumsneedwine, have another glass. You are over-reacting.

@cantkeepawayforever as Scummings proved there was NO legal need to stay home.

Sheepandcows like I said in the most recent edition the Economist said roughly 1% have long-term viral damage. I read your links and they are about self reporting not clinical studies.