Sorry, but for me this is the opposite from heartwarming. It makes me feel more hopeless then ever

[JKRowlingIsMyQueen]

I'm referring to what's going on in this photo. We know the vast majority of young and healthy people are unaffected by the virus and that most of deaths were old people in care homes.

So with all these lockdowns, restrictions and ruining the economy we are prolonging their life, right? Only for them to spend the end of their life alone with no in person contact with their family and friends.

Elderly people should have a choice whether they want to hang out in the same room with their own spouse for gods sake. This is elder abuse imo.

Now drag me for being "selfish" all you want but this is not okay.

I know a 90 year old who's completely refusing to abide by the rules.

She's seem lots of her friends living for years in care homes with dementia and says it the last thing she wants. In her words " lived a full and active life and died after a short illness, that's me!"

Problem with this view though, is that's it's not just her, it's the medics that will be looking after her she's put in danger as well.

There are no good options.

It’s all the people who do not die, and have long term effects, which if you are older anyway are bound to be worse. No one wants to spend their last years feeling so ill.

There are no good vs bad choices here. They are all tough!

The most important things are keeping our vulnerable alive and keeping the NHS going.

Our elderly lived through a war. They know this to be way more comfortable than that!

My GPs are in their 90's. No way would I put them at risk by visiting, especially with him being back at school.

It isn't up to the individual to decide what risks they wish to take, I'm afraid. The Rate is over 1, so for every person who gets it they pass it on to at least 1 other person. Of course our elderly want to see family, we want to see them too, but it's not worth DYING over, nor causing the death of Edith in the flat next door.

I'm afraid we are being a nation of whiners over this and it will drag out longer because of people's pig headedness.

Many in care homes have no family that visit at the best of times. More people need to know how theses facilities and people in them function. Where I’ve worked, family never shows interest.

Most care homes have gardens, or at least some outside. Couldn’t some patients be wheeled into the garden for a socially-distanced meet-up? I have in fact seen this at a dementia home nearby.

For everyone saying how awful it is, what do you think should be allowed to happen?

When things were at their worst in March and April, the government were slammed for not protecting care homes. If you start letting people in, the risks increase hugely.

@IrmaFayLear

Most care homes have gardens, or at least some outside. Couldn’t some patients be wheeled into the garden for a socially-distanced meet-up? I have in fact seen this at a dementia home nearby.

Yes the risks being outside are so, so much less than inside. Especially with masks and socially distanced. This should be perfectly possible.

@IrmaFayLear

Most care homes have gardens, or at least some outside. Couldn’t some patients be wheeled into the garden for a socially-distanced meet-up? I have in fact seen this at a dementia home nearby.

I saw a poster on another thread saying they tried this with an elderly relative, and the relative was so cold after ten minutes they had to give up.

Going into winter, outside meet-ups are going to become impossible.

My friend's mum is in a nursing home, and they've only been able to have window visits once a fortnight since this started. They help her to use Skype once a week, and she always asks why they don't visit and if they don't love her (she has dementia) and apologising if she's done something wrong to them.

It's horrible.

The thing is, the home she's in has a lovely garden area, and it baffles me SO much why they can't be wheeled out once a week to meet from a distance with their loved ones.

It's just not humane.

The most important things are keeping our vulnerable alive

Actually, I don't agree.
I think modern medicine and treatment (not just covid) sometimes just prolong suffering for everyone. Fighting to prolong the life of someone with end state cancer for example, so they can just spend a few more days in excruciating pain.

I remember at the start of this seeing some outraged relatives on TV complaining that a care home had wanted to talk about end of life care for their mum. What did they think? That their 95 year old mum with dementia was going to get better and go home?

I have a friend whose mother is “end of life” with dementia in a care home. She will be gone within months maybe weeks. Her husband and children are not allowed to visit her. Not due to covid risk to her (she is dying... ) but presumably due to risk to others in the home. I can’t think of a good solution it’s just desperately sad.

My mother is 91 and in care home, no Covid so far luckily, but only one 'constant' visitor is allowed to visit her in the garden (this restriction is difficult for the rest of the family). The meeting takes place either side of a partition. My mother finds it difficult to hear without a walkie talkie and we often end up almost shouting anyway. We both agree FaceTime is better in lots of ways but I feel I must visit her in person while I can as it seems unlikely they will allow indoor visiting when it gets colder. Singing or talking through a closed window isn't encouraged because it scares the other residents. Options are getting more and more limited as autumn closes in. I feel so sad about it.

@zafferana

Anyone with mental capacity should have the choice of whether they want to see their family members (and I'm not talking about through a closed window!). For those without capacity, it should be up to their spouse or DC. I think a lot of care homes are over-stepping with their draconian visiting policies. No one puts their elderly relative into a care home with the expectation that they won't be allowed to visit them for months, hold their hand, talk to them face to face, hug them. The average life span of a person once they go into a care home is just 18 months. I doubt very much if any of them would choose to live longer, if it means being hostages in their rooms.

Please know that as someone who works for a care provider we absolutely hate this situation too, and there really is no right way forward. We're part of the campaign to get family members classed as "key carers" so they can benefit from regular testing and be able to see and care for their elderly relatives, particularly those living with dementia. But right now decisions on whether people can visit are often not down to us, they rely on the local director of public health giving us the OK to try and find a way to enable them to take place safely - and in many areas of the country we are not getting that permission.

Our front-line staff are struggling so much with the situation - so please don't think it is down to them. We would like nothing more than to fling open the doors to all the friends and relatives, but as things stand we just can't. And I'm really, really sorry about that.

But there have been many lovely days this summer. I agree with fallfallfall that huge numbers of residents never have visitors, and Covid is just another (very good) excuse. The pil both had advanced dementia and most of their fellow residents never saw a family member.

I can’t think of a good solution it’s just desperately sad

I know. There are no good options.

My granny still lives independently in her 80s. But she needs my dad to go round and help with shopping etc.

We aren’t living in a local lockdown area and she’s really looking forward to seeing me and bump for the first time in months. I shan’t be keeping baby from her.

We are following the “rule of 6” so not doing anything illegal.

The thing is, the home she's in has a lovely garden area, and it baffles me SO much why they can't be wheeled out once a week to meet from a distance with their loved ones.

Exactly - but so many care homes aren't allowing this. This past few months while the weather has been lovely have been an ideal time to allow outdoor, socially distanced visits.

@KenDodd I agree with you. Death is a taboo in modern society and it stops us from finding ways to allow people to pass peacefully. It's like people want to deny the inevitability.
My dm has a massive tumour removed from her bowel in 2016. Scans showed no more cancer. She was extremely thin and weak following her operation. The doctors decided to give her chemotherapy. She had been recuperating well following her operation but the chemotherapy absolutely floored her. It ruined her last Christmas in her own home which was also the last time the whole family were together. The cancer came back anyway. I wish the doctors had thought more about quality of life than trying to prolong the inevitable.

How I agree there, Ken Dodd. I think the Hippocratic oath has outlived its original purpose, given the advances in modern medicine.

The pil lived miserable existences for years: doubly incontinent, not knowing their own names, not recognising their dcs, being spoon fed... it was undignified and, far from any oath to protect life, was inhumane .

I agree I am astonished when some people were outraged their relatives had died. Whoever recovers from dementia? That would be a medical miracle.

The thing is that if visitors are allowed, it won’t be long before one of the residents catch Covid and it spreads through the Care home. Then every one of the residents are at a much increased risk. The Care home is then deemed to be to blame.

The only way I can see it could really be considered, is if all the residents are put in isolation, so that the risk of passing Covid on if they got it is reduced! That could maybe allow a visitor one day a week, but the resident would then be confined to their room and not allowed contact with any of the other residents! Which would be worse scenario??

IMHO I would rather my relative (he is 92) have some socialisation with other residents, instead of being in isolation from the other residents because I am visiting him once a week!

I work at a care home and I can honestly say that the residents have really adapted well . The ones with dementia who do not have mental capacity need to be safe guarded and it would be totally irresponsible of the home to allow visitors in and put them at risk . The residents with mental capacity FaceTime their relatives (with our assistance ) and all residents have window visits and socially distanced outdoor visits . The residents who are very unwell/EOL have relative visits with temp check and full PPE .
I can honestly say that relatives were actually very anxious once we did start having the new visiting arrangements because they were concerned for their elderly relatives wellbeing. So basically in my experience the elderly are actually coping very well .

My grandmother died during lockdown having had no visitors for ten weeks (and I suspect not really understanding why). Fortunately the care home allowed me in when she was dying, I think/hope she knew I was there.

I wish these people in the care homes could make their own decisions about whether they want to see family. Unfortunately I don't suppose it's possible without putting the rest of the staff and residents at risk.

(Missing the point but) strangers shouldn't be posting the intimate moments of others for likes without their consent.

Definitely not heartwarming, fucking barbaric. Sentient adults who have had their basic human rights stripped from them and forced to become prisoners in their own homes. Fucking unconscionable.

I so agree with you. I wasn’t allowed to see my Dad who was in a nursing home, during the whole of March, April and May. The only thing that had been keeping him going were my visits and I visited often. He had vascular dementia but always knew who I was. It was heartbreaking as he died at the end of May not understanding why I wasn’t coming to see him. By the time I was allowed in to be with him when he was dying I don’t know if he was aware I was there. I talked to him as he passed and continued for a bit in case his hearing was still there. It was devastating not only because of that but also because my Mum was in the same nursing home with Alzheimer’s Disease and I wasn’t allowed to go and be with her and break it to her until about a fortnight later. By the time I was allowed a weekly visit to her with full PPE she showed no recognition of me at all. 😢😢 The thing is, Dad was 90 and Mum is 88. They were/are far advanced in their dementias and it is just existing if family isn’t allowed in often enough. I’m sure given the choice that they would have wanted my usual visits despite the risk to them. 🤔🤔