Sorry, but for me this is the opposite from heartwarming. It makes me feel more hopeless then ever

[JKRowlingIsMyQueen]

I'm referring to what's going on in this photo. We know the vast majority of young and healthy people are unaffected by the virus and that most of deaths were old people in care homes.

So with all these lockdowns, restrictions and ruining the economy we are prolonging their life, right? Only for them to spend the end of their life alone with no in person contact with their family and friends.

Elderly people should have a choice whether they want to hang out in the same room with their own spouse for gods sake. This is elder abuse imo.

Now drag me for being "selfish" all you want but this is not okay.

Anyone with mental capacity should have the choice of whether they want to see their family members (and I'm not talking about through a closed window!). For those without capacity, it should be up to their spouse or DC. I think a lot of care homes are over-stepping with their draconian visiting policies. No one puts their elderly relative into a care home with the expectation that they won't be allowed to visit them for months, hold their hand, talk to them face to face, hug them. The average life span of a person once they go into a care home is just 18 months. I doubt very much if any of them would choose to live longer, if it means being hostages in their rooms.

@kittensarecute

This is cruel. That photo is why social distancing needs to be ditched and ditched now.

Yeah, good idea, because drowning in lung fluid would be much nicer.

My grandad died in early April having seen his daughters that day. I'm so relieved.

We took the decision to allow family members in to my grandma in the last week of her life during lockdown, she was at home so we just decided.

the challenge for care homes is that this virus spreads so rapidly within the home. if one person decides they want visitors & don't care if they get it, that would be fine if they live alone. But if they live with 30 other very vulnerable people who don't want to die, then it is not really fair for that one person to accept visitors.

@repeatswan. Hate to breakit to you but a lot of the elderlydie of pneumonia or sepsis even without covid. Why is it better that they have been deprived for months of what, formant, is the only source of joy in their lives. Why is it better for so many with dementia or mobility issues to shut down and give up life?

@EmptyFrogBarrel

Well you don’t know what the woman’s choice is, do you? She might, you know, want to live. And also, except in local lockdown areas, people can visit their relatives in care homes.

Last I checked corona is not the only thing that can kill you. The choice is not between living OR seeing your loved ones. She can still die tomorrow from another cause.

The last post is correct . The carers have to go from person to person so even if a resident and family agree to take the risk and they catch it then it can very quickly spread .

So the government were blamed for the deaths in care homes and now you want to reverse what they have done? My aunt and uncle both died of covid in a care home and they were on lockdown . It was a carer who bought it into the home and they lost many residents. All the carers were themselves devastated and traumatised .

I don’t have the answer but unfortunately individuals making the decision might not work .

Its sh#t. My Dad is in his late 70s and has cancer. The chemo is really taking it out of him and I haven't been able to hold his hand let alone hug him. It breaks my heart.

My face is leaking
How touching & as you say heart rending.

We have lost two older Aunts in our family since March & the natural bereavement has stung deeper as we could not say goodbye or gather to mourn for them at a funeral. The nursing staff did their very best relaying messages, facilitating online contact but holding a loved ones hand as they fade away is an intrinsic human act. It has been heart breaking to see their adult children mourn without saying goodbye or holding their mum at the end. Very sad.

Vigour debate chez nous today about the tipping point where caution to flatten the curve/stay safe/save lives moves so far into lockdown, isolation, unmet medical needs & the imminent far longer lasting impact of mass unemployment, seized up gears of the economy & loss of business confidence.

We are a clinical vulnerable household (with a wide circle of clinically family & friends) who have managed stringent social distancing to keep some semblance of normal life going - an understatement as we have missed saying final goodbyes, funerals & see the kids in our circle growing up.

But what I fear most is not illness or debility from Covid or other disease although we are at real risk, it is the spectre of mass unemployment & even more inequality & deprivation in our comparatively wealthy nation. Three million unemployed in the early 80s was devastating on so many levels & it took decades for recovery to reach most parts of the nation.

@Willow2017

You know that seeing your husband in the flesh is not a guarentee you will get infected by them?
You know that even the older generation are not guarenteed a death sentence? Many older people survive covid just the same as anyone else.
Maybe the woman does not have the capacity to understand why her husband is not allowed in to see her and is upset by this and her quality of life is now much reduced?
But hey if she lives in confusion and sheer loneliness, without the comforting touch of her husband for another few months thats ok as long as she hasn't got bloody covid

So very, very well said.

The thing is we all hate what is happening to individuals and the economy but if you speak to people who worked in the nhs through the peak they are scared of what might happen next and to be honest I am not seeing any practical alternative ideas . Not from posters on here or the opposition party .

The problem with this picture is we dont know the full story. My GF (over 90) has decided he would rather not see us indoors so we are doing this, its his choice. He feels he has a few more years to live and would rather see a few more grandchildrens weddings and great grandchildren. I would be furious if someone took a pic of us talking to him through the window and decided that it was elder abuse. Maybe this is the residents choice?

I agree. My dad has been in hospital alone for most of lockdown, unable to be visited by family. His spirits are rock bottom and he keeps saying he;s been abandoned. he thinks we are 'being distant.' No amount of explaining that we're not allowed to see him helps him understand why he is so alone.

@ChodeOfChodeBall

So then the solution is families should care for the elderly in their own homes then . Then of course the decision and risk can be their own ?

So sad. I can’t bear the thought of elderly alone

But the care homes cases were very difficult to control. Hard to deal with either way.

But yes it is heart rending

My grandmother died a year ago this month. I'm glad she didn't have the last months of her life feeling lonely and forgotten, she wouldn't have had the capacity to remember why she wasn't having visitors.

DFIL died in a hospice with no family around him during lockdown. No-one deserves that. He had a family who adored him. He deserved to have them around him. I don’t think DH has come close to processing it and I will never not feel sad when I think of it.

You’re right OP, that photo isn’t heartwarming. Quite the opposite.

@parietal

the challenge for care homes is that this virus spreads so rapidly within the home. if one person decides they want visitors & don't care if they get it, that would be fine if they live alone. But if they live with 30 other very vulnerable people who don't want to die, then it is not really fair for that one person to accept visitors.

That's the thing isn't it?

Care homes are surely having to keep footfall down as much as possible.

It is sad but, as pps have said, if a visitor introduces Covid to a care home, the virus will run riot.

The problem then is not just loss of life, but prolonged illness requiring hospital care. That means beds occupied for weeks if not months and not available for others if the virus starts increasing.

So protecting the vulnerable is for the sake of others, not just themselves (and I speak as someone who, if I get it, will no doubt be hogging a bed).

Agreed. Six week old DD hasn’t met her 95 year old great grandma, DH is desperate to introduce her to his nan she’s in local lockdown in Birmingham though so even if we self isolate for two weeks before seeing her it won’t be allowed. She told DH on the phone she doubts they’ll ever meet, he told her not to be so silly but away from her he’s definitely not so optimistic. It’s horrific.

Agreed.

@monkeyonthetable

I agree. My dad has been in hospital alone for most of lockdown, unable to be visited by family. His spirits are rock bottom and he keeps saying he;s been abandoned. he thinks we are 'being distant.' No amount of explaining that we're not allowed to see him helps him understand why he is so alone.

I would have thought if your dad has been in for so long that some arrangement could be come to re visiting?

Surely there has to be thought for the mental well being of patients?

Dying from Covid isn’t something that many older or vulnerable people want either. My mother has been shielding seeing no-one except from a long way on her doorstep for 10 minutes, for the last 7 months. She wants to live another 10 years. She also doesn’t want that life to be marred by Covid that she doesn’t die from but suffers from long term effects. I really miss her, but she deserves to make that choice herself.

I'm a grandmother and I see my granddaughter twice a week. If this Covid goes on, I could be dead of something else and never have seen her. There are some things I'll risk. I may regret it, but that's how I feel just now. She lights up my life and the hardest part of the March lockdown was not being able to see her.