Are we allowed 7 people in our house in different rooms?

[Firefliess]

DSD and her BF have come to stay this weekend. We also have DD and DSS and me and DH at home, so that makes 6 of us. DD wants her BF to stay over tomorrow night. I can't figure out whether that's allowed or not. It would mean 7 people in the house, but in no sense would we be "gathering" DD and her BF would get in late and go straight to her room. Rest of us probably we wouldn't even see him. Is that allowed? Or are people considered to be "gathering" simply by being in the same house? We're in England by the way and not in an area with any local lockdown

On the other thread I was firmly of the opinion (in a case where 4 friends may have met for an evening in a house where 3 other people did not meet them) that it was legal.

Here I find interesting but different as there is an overnight stay involved - somehow that feels slightly different as the longer the time you are all under one roof the greater the likelihood of meeting.

I am still of the opinion that it could be done legally, but it feels much closer to the 'but I could have 8 people and we could say we were 2 groups of 4' which is clearly illegal.

All I can say is I agree that it is NOT clear that it is illegal.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the government have a new rule soon, similar to the Scottish one. No mixing of households. It appears to be the only way to achieve what is necessary.

And before anyone says it, no I'm not demented with joy at the prospect.

WhatSantawill bring (who is a lawyer like I am) is correct.

"Actually, @RedskyAtnight there is a definition of "gathering" in the legislation, s5(6)(a) Health Protection (Coronovirus Restrictions)(England) Regs 2020. "there is a gathering when two or more people are present together in the same place in order to engage in any form of social interaction with each other, or to undertake any other activity with each other;" "

In my view if you come into the house late and go to bed that is not going there to engage in social interaction. So eg on Sunday night my son and 3 university friends are coming back here to sleep as the 3 do not live in London and I have spare beds. They will have been out for a meal - within rules of 6 and will be leaving their table by 10pm as now required. I will be asleep when they get here. There will then be 6 of us in the house (my other son and I included in that) . Even if there were more they are not gathering in my view with me and my other son. If they leave before I get up or I shut my office door and work I do not see how under that definition it is a gathering. My other son had a friend here this morning whom I didn't see. I think he was in the house for 5 minutes after they had been on a walk and I saw his car driving away. No way have I gathered with that person.

If the state wants to change the regulations it can but for now the original poster is acting within the law in my view.

it’s almost as though we have come full circle, back to MN when lockdown first happened and we had an hours exercise a day and the poster said “oh but can I be exempt because I have a large dog and need to walk him AND go for a run on my own”

Yeah, except in England there was no rule about one hour exercise, only on Mumsnet!

I don’t think it can made anyone easier to understand. 6 people only in an English house.

6 its not difficult

No its not allowed

Well Coffeeandbeans it appears that people are willfully finding it hard to get to grips with. I wonder if all countries are like this. Let's hope not.

Why not just follow the spirit of the law? All this analysis of what we can and can't do is bloody ridiculous. It's obvious what the law is trying to achieve and it's not done for fun.

Those of you that claim it is obvious that only 6 are allowed in one house are wrong. A gathering has to include some form of social interaction, being sequentially in the same space won‘t cut it. You are also still allowed to meet in different groups of 6 at different times outside the home so long as you don‘t combine groups.
The government have done this on purpose. They know the police don‘t have the resources to enforce this and they don‘t really want to criminalise normally law abiding people that have an extra person or two in their property. What they want is for people to follow the guidance because they believe it will reduce infection rates. The press conference was designed to scare people into compliance.

No. All over bbc news, all over government guidelines. Sigh. Why do people not read?

What if the OP's daughter was a lodger instead, with her own (locked) door and own bathroom and wanted to bring her BF back? Would she have to check with her landlady to make sure there weren't already more than 4 people in the house? Of course not.

I'm with the lawyers on this one. The key element is the 'gathering' not the physical house and walls.

It's very clear that this legislation was designed to give the police clear, formal powers to break up house parties and large, mullti-household gatherings.

What about if the kids are asleep

So it must be legal for 2 (or more) separate groups of 6 to be in the same house as long as there is no interaction between the groups?

@bottomdrawer

What about if the kids are asleep

They are still humans when asleep!

1,2,3,4,5,6

ginger, people need to read what we lawyers have put on the thread. That is the law. that is the only thing that is relevant. There is all kinds of irrelevant and wrong material over the internet. The legislation which is quote and linked to above in the only thing that matters as to what is allowed and what is not and the definition of "gathering" in the regulations is key to that.

That is why having 50 round for a noisy house party with drink into the early hours is a major breach and why having 2 other couples for dinner whilst the children sleep upstairs is compliant with the regulations.

It's ok to have 50 though as long as they're in separate groups of 6 with no interaction

They are still humans when asleep!

1,2,3,4,5,6

They are not GATHERING though 🤷🏻‍♀️

@emptyshelvesagain

They are still humans when asleep!

1,2,3,4,5,6

They are not GATHERING though 🤷🏻‍♀️

Gosh, I defer to the lawyers on the definitions, but really I'm just pissed off with the number of people always trying to find ways round this that and the other.

You're presumably right about 'gathering' but I feel tired.

It depends what you mean by getting round. you could say any9one who leaves the house is getting round things. I have not been a pub or restaurant since this started and seen my grandchildren once since Christmas. I probably have less interaction than most people even though I do not agree with and do not support any CV19 mandatory rules.

The spirit of what the state wants is 1. to minimise contagion although even that is dubious as if we could eg get most students have it this term and be immune (if it gives immunity) that might be desirable but also 2. to keep some things going like pubs, schools universities nurseries otherwise we will have no little money people will starve and many more will die than of covid. Those 2 things are both the spirit of the rules. So my relative isolation and low spending is not really in the spirit of the rules

I’ve been wondering about the legality of a couple of scenarios:

-inviting a mum + 2 children for a playdate with my two children whilst my partner is working in his office upstairs

-inviting 3 friends around In the evening while my children are in bed.

Actually the lawyers on here can only have an opinion. They will defer to the judges.

@Bubbinsmakesthree I’ve done both those things and can’t see how it’s illegal. It made no difference whether my husband was in the office or not, he wasn’t part of my social gathering 🤷‍♀️

@EarlGreyJenny

It's ok to have 50 though as long as they're in separate groups of 6 with no interaction

Well possibly, but I would be MUCH more wary of 50 given the fine for an indoor gathering of over 30 is £10,000!

I suspect in two weeks maximum the whole of the UK will be under the no mixing household rules.

@Rosehip10

I suspect in two weeks maximum the whole of the UK will be under the no mixing household rules.

And then we will all be on here looking at the definition of 'household'