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Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 20

970 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/09/2020 22:46

Welcome to thread 20 of the daily updates

Resource links:

Uk dashboard deaths, cases, hospitals, tests - 4 nations, English regions & LAs
Imperial UK weekly LAs, cases / 100k, table, map, hotspots
Modelling real number of infections February to date
MSAO Map of English cases
Cases Tracker England Local Government
ONS MSAO Map English deaths
CovidMessenger live update by council district in England
Scot gov Daily data
Scotland TravellingTabby LAs, care homes, hospitals, tests, t&t
PH Wales LAs, tests, ONS deaths
NI Dashboard
Zoe Uk data
UK govt pressers Slides & data
ICNRC Intensive Care National Audit & Research reports
NHS t&t England & UK testing Weekly stats
R estimates UK & English regions
PHE Surveillance reports & LA Local Watchlist Maps by LSOA
ONS England infection surveillance report each Friday
Datasets for ONS surveillance reports
ONS Roundup deaths, infections & economic reports
ECDC rolling 14-day incidence EEA & UK
Worldometer UK page
Our World in Data GB test positivity etc, DIY country graphs
FT DIY graphs compare deaths, cases, raw / million pop
Alama Personal COVID risk assessment
Local Mobility Reports for countries
UK Highstreet Tracker for cities & large towns Footfall, spend index, workers, visitors, economic recovery

Our STUDIES Corner

We welcome factual, data driven, and civil discussions from all contributors 📈 📉 📊 👍

Request to posters giving a link:
Please do so in full, so people can see in advance what they are clicking
Also at least a brief title so we know what the link is about

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Thread gallery
82
Oldbutstillgotit · 25/09/2020 12:25

558 new cases in Scotland . 9.5% positive . Not good .

GetAMoveOnTroodon · 25/09/2020 12:25

Today’s ONS report says 1 in 500 infected so over 100,000 infections again in England

herecomesthsun · 25/09/2020 12:38

Yes. Although it is still a lot less that at the peak, when the rate was thought to be 100,000 every day or more, and the total number of cases (extrapolating from the putative rates ) may have been around 1-3 million in the UK.

wintertravel1980 · 25/09/2020 12:41

There have been studies in Germany on areas which made face masks compulsory everywhere outdoors, during height of epidemic
e.g. city of Jena

Yes, I remember the Jena's case but I actually thought they only mandated masks in shops and public transport:

www.research-in-germany.org/news/2020/6/2020-06-16_Face_masks_considerably_contribute_to_reducing_the_spread_of_coronavirus_infections.html

Masks at socially distanced football matches definitely make sense but Spain, for instance, spent way too much effort on enforcing mandatory masks in all public spaces including streets and beaches. Looks like it was not time well spent.

littleowl1 · 25/09/2020 12:45

@MarshaBradyo and @BigChocFrenzy

That chart is brilliant.

I must admit I haven't been following the international picture the last few weeks with the same granularity as the domestic outlook but I did see a very interesting interview with the Swedish Health Minister earlier this week.

He made a really interesting point but whether it was just a "cheap" soundbite or has real substance will remain to be seen.

Sweden is often compared to its neighbour's Finland, Norway etc who had much stricter approaches to the outbreak than Sweden and have had much, much lower death rates.

His point was that now that lockdown in Sweden's neighbours are lifting, they are seeing a much more rapid increase in cases than Sweden - Sweden's case rate is fairly stable.

He was implying that in 6-9 months time the cumulative death rate in Sweden's neighbours will likely be similar as they are at higher risk of major outbreaks as lockdowns lift. He felt Swede's had learnt how to live in a reasonably safe way and a degree of immunity had been built in to society which resulted in a less liklihood of major, sudden increase in cases.

Now I haven't looked at the figures and I know these soundbites can be a load of nonsense. And I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what he said.

But I did think it was interesting.

You can kind of imagine the charts in 9 months time side by side - Sweden with one long, relatively flat bell curve and its neighbours with peaks-and-troughs-and-peaks-and-troughs and the inevitable disruption to society/economy that causes.

Now, I have no idea if he is right. It just caught my attention. It was an interesting hypothesis, I thought.

On another note - and maybe it is answered earlier on the thread (apologies if so) - but I am pretty surprised that Sweden's neighbours had such little economic impact given they had fairly strict lockdowns (I think?). Any idea how they achieved that?


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TheSunIsStillShining · 25/09/2020 12:47

@littleowl1
I think this joke sheds some light on it.
"You need to keep 2 meter distance"
"Do we have to go soooo close???"

lurker101 · 25/09/2020 12:52

@NeurotrashWarrior the NI Executive announced last night that similar restrictions to those applied on the NE (mainly no mixing of households) has resulted in a 50% drop in cases in the affected postcode areas since they were introduced on 10 September which is really positive.

Coquohvan · 25/09/2020 13:00

France has 7days isolation after positive test. Noticed this from Le Tour Christian Proudhomme the races director caught it and was back in post 7 days later. This could be a factor also for rising cases!

CoffeeandCroissant · 25/09/2020 13:01

There was an interesting Briefing Room (BBC Radio 4 programme) on Sweden the other day. It's available here:
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000mqpv

NeurotrashWarrior · 25/09/2020 13:01

[quote lurker101]@NeurotrashWarrior the NI Executive announced last night that similar restrictions to those applied on the NE (mainly no mixing of households) has resulted in a 50% drop in cases in the affected postcode areas since they were introduced on 10 September which is really positive.[/quote]

That is positive! I'm not sure how much compliance there is but even some would help. I think it will take a few weeks to see the effects.

I then wonder if it will be rolled out across the country if things continue to spiral.

Schools are beginning to be badly affected in the NE. Most don't make it to the paper/s.

RedToothBrush · 25/09/2020 13:13

Still waiting on the PHE stuff but

Report published 25th September 2020
Cases data from week 17th-23rd September 2020

Data extracted covering testing up to 23rd September 2020 show that the total number of confirmed cases for the last 7 days is 1113, an increase of 460 cases on the previous week. The latest weekly rate of Covid-19 in Liverpool is 223.5 per 100,000 population and the latest positivity testing rate* is 12.8%.

The last two days its been 10.9% So a continued rise in that positivity rate...

I'm not too confident that the PHE Surveillance Report due today is going to make for great reading.

(Just to point out that local lockdown in Liverpool was in affect from the 22nd)

CharlieParley · 25/09/2020 13:14

Thank you for this thread!

Leaving aside the treatment of students which is in my view wrong for a number of reasons, I needed a good look at the data today and this thread has made it so much easier.

(After watching some compelling arguments about the epidemic being all but over - that in all honesty I wanted to believe - I had to check on the validity of the claims. And the best way I know to do that is to go to as many different sources or research and data as possible. )

BigChocFrenzy · 25/09/2020 13:22

@wintertravel1980

There have been studies in Germany on areas which made face masks compulsory everywhere outdoors, during height of epidemic e.g. city of Jena

Yes, I remember the Jena's case but I actually thought they only mandated masks in shops and public transport:

www.research-in-germany.org/news/2020/6/2020-06-16_Face_masks_considerably_contribute_to_reducing_the_spread_of_coronavirus_infections.html

Masks at socially distanced football matches definitely make sense but Spain, for instance, spent way too much effort on enforcing mandatory masks in all public spaces including streets and beaches. Looks like it was not time well spent.

..... It was completely outdoors, according to news reports here
OP posts:
sirfredfredgeorge · 25/09/2020 13:26

On another note - and maybe it is answered earlier on the thread (apologies if so) - but I am pretty surprised that Sweden's neighbours had such little economic impact given they had fairly strict lockdowns (I think?). Any idea how they achieved that?

Economic damage is much more related to the type of economy than any details - it doesn't really matter to service industries if people aren't going because they're locked in, or if they aren't going because they're nervous/not enjoying as much/isolating etc. So being forced to lock down doesn't matter as much.

Norway is much less reliant on service industries for its overall economy, (59% vs 78% in the UK) and obviously its exports are hit differently. As such a rich country with already significant income transfer to individuals, they had much more of a safety net, and no-one really worried about their jobs.

herecomesthsun · 25/09/2020 13:29

Independent SAGE is on in a few minutes (1.30pm)

RedToothBrush · 25/09/2020 13:32

Leeds Councillors are saying they expect to be going into lockdown midnight tonight. I'm amazed it hasn't been already tbh.

Wigan and Stockport back in local lockdown in line with rest of Greater Manchester. (confirmed by Lisa Nandy)

London also been put on the watch list (joint statement by all the London boroughs - though yet to be confirmed by PHE). No word on whether this was observational or will mean restrictions.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/09/2020 13:34

[quote littleowl1]**@MarshaBradyo* and @BigChocFrenzy*

That chart is brilliant.

I must admit I haven't been following the international picture the last few weeks with the same granularity as the domestic outlook but I did see a very interesting interview with the Swedish Health Minister earlier this week.

He made a really interesting point but whether it was just a "cheap" soundbite or has real substance will remain to be seen.

Sweden is often compared to its neighbour's Finland, Norway etc who had much stricter approaches to the outbreak than Sweden and have had much, much lower death rates.

His point was that now that lockdown in Sweden's neighbours are lifting, they are seeing a much more rapid increase in cases than Sweden - Sweden's case rate is fairly stable.

He was implying that in 6-9 months time the cumulative death rate in Sweden's neighbours will likely be similar as they are at higher risk of major outbreaks as lockdowns lift. He felt Swede's had learnt how to live in a reasonably safe way and a degree of immunity had been built in to society which resulted in a less liklihood of major, sudden increase in cases.

Now I haven't looked at the figures and I know these soundbites can be a load of nonsense. And I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what he said.

But I did think it was interesting.

You can kind of imagine the charts in 9 months time side by side - Sweden with one long, relatively flat bell curve and its neighbours with peaks-and-troughs-and-peaks-and-troughs and the inevitable disruption to society/economy that causes.

Now, I have no idea if he is right. It just caught my attention. It was an interesting hypothesis, I thought.

On another note - and maybe it is answered earlier on the thread (apologies if so) - but I am pretty surprised that Sweden's neighbours had such little economic impact given they had fairly strict lockdowns (I think?). Any idea how they achieved that?


Get coronavirus case numbers in your local council area straight to your inbox every day. Sign up at www.covidmessenger.com[/quote]
....
What the end comparison is between Sweden and its neighbours would best be done after next spring,
but imo
the 6 months knowledged gained of the former "Novel" virus will be crucial:

  1. The 2nd wave is likely to be much less for countries than the 1st wave, because of the knowledge of targeted measures that work to reduce case & infection spread, hence deaths
    E.g. in the UK, mainstream prediction is days of max 200 deaths vs the 22 consecutive days of > 1,000 deaths in March-April

  2. Sweden still looks far from herd immunity - especially because of the 20-25% "overwhoot" we have discussed when achieved by infections rather than a vaccine
    It's cases may be low atm, but they are still higher / million than e.g. Germany

  3. By the end of winter, quite a bit of Sweden's existing immunity may have woen off

  4. Improved treatments like O2, the 2 steroids and other meds have reduced the death rate, probably 30%+

Conclusion:
MUCH better to reduce any 1st wave as much as possible, in a virus that does not mutate in a clinical sense
(e.g. not like the 2018 flu with its bigger 2nd wave)

COuntries are much better able to reduce a 2nd wave

OP posts:
herecomesthsun · 25/09/2020 13:39

Good news- hospital admission doubling rate appears to be slowing from 8 days to 12 days. Also, growth in number of cases appeared to be slowing in September (from doubling every week to doubling every 3 weeks, although this might be very influenced by difficulties with testing)

BigChocFrenzy · 25/09/2020 13:43

@sirfredfredgeorge

On another note - and maybe it is answered earlier on the thread (apologies if so) - but I am pretty surprised that Sweden's neighbours had such little economic impact given they had fairly strict lockdowns (I think?). Any idea how they achieved that?

Economic damage is much more related to the type of economy than any details - it doesn't really matter to service industries if people aren't going because they're locked in, or if they aren't going because they're nervous/not enjoying as much/isolating etc. So being forced to lock down doesn't matter as much.

Norway is much less reliant on service industries for its overall economy, (59% vs 78% in the UK) and obviously its exports are hit differently. As such a rich country with already significant income transfer to individuals, they had much more of a safety net, and no-one really worried about their jobs.

... Deaths & economic damage are very heavily linked

Germany's economy has 70% services and has similarly low economic damage to the Scandinavian countries

What really helped Germany was the v low deaths and the confidence people had that the authorities know what they are doing
So people continued to go out to work if they couldn't WFH
and once lockdown liften, they soon flooded back to restaurants and shops

What is very important is whether people feel safe enough to go out to work and to pend on non-essentials

Regardless of whether govt allows / forbids this, we saw how footfall fell even before lockdowns in most countries

Sweden never force anything to close, but restaurants, clubs, shops etc typically lost that more cautious / vulnerable section of customers, e.g. pensioners with the important Grey Euro
Businesses may not even cover running costs if they have 10%, 15% fewer customers, let alone make profits

Also, Sweden, like Germany, exports a lot from its manufacturing sectors, plus some associated services
Customers around the world are not buying as before
All exporters have been hit like this

OP posts:
Snog · 25/09/2020 13:49

Thanks for the live link to sage

BigChocFrenzy · 25/09/2020 13:49

Only ONS surveillance report so far, so looking back to week 13-19 September

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/englandwalesandnorthernireland25september2020

•	Estimated 103,600 people n England had Covid,  equating to ~1 in 500 people

•	Estimate shows the number of infections has increased in recent weeks, all age groups, highest rates or age 17-24

•	Evidence of higher infection rates in the North West, Yorkshire and the Humber, London and North East; 
  West and East Midlands showing a small increase.
OP posts:
herecomesthsun · 25/09/2020 13:53

@Snog

Thanks for the live link to sage
This is indie SAGE. Still professors but a bit freer to say exactly what they think the science means.

Led by Prof Dave King, formerly Chief Scientific Adviser to the UK Government under both Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, and Head of the Government Office for Science for over 7 years.

littleowl1 · 25/09/2020 13:55

Does anyone know what time the National COVID-19 surveillance report is published later today?

MRex · 25/09/2020 13:56

@littleowl1 - the structure of an economy and the amount that can be done from home will have mattered most. The "normal" amount of space and rules on distancing also dictate between them the level of effort to keep the economy moving safely.
All the Nordic countries have a big services sector; Norway has lots of shipping technology and Finland electronics - both with lots of work from home potential. Meanwhile fishing, oil and gas in Norway pull in high GDP and didn't close, same with Finland's forestry. Sweden's automotive sales on the other hand slowed, and I think they may also have a higher dependency on tourism. I expect Sweden's biotech sales are up, but that may not have impacted figures until Q3.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/09/2020 13:57

Updates by NHS England to official death numbers issued on earlier dates:
[[https://mobile.twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats
UK COVID-19]]9@UKCovid19Stats*

NHS England reported 33 more COVID-19 hospital deaths that occurred over 6 dates:

3 = 24th Sept (1 day ago)
22 = 23rd Sept (2 days ago)
5 = 22nd Sept (3 days ago)
1 = 10th Sept (15 days ago)
1 = 27th Apr (151 days ago)
1 = 21st Apr (157 days ago)

Nearly all were in the 60-79 and 80+ age groups, so late middle age & elderly

Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 20
OP posts: