We were doing ok until we opened all the schools....

[Bbq1]

After lockdown was lifted pre September and pubs, restaurants etc were opened we seemed to have a handle on Covid with cases, hospital admissions and deaths all declining fairly steadily. Since we released millions of school aged children and thousands of teachers etc back into the classroom- boom, cases and consequently deaths, are now growing very rapidly again. It didn't take a rocket scientist to work out that this would happen. I work in a school and I have a 15 year old starting his gcse's so I 100% don't want the schools to close but surely there must be a more workable solution? Couldn't schools be one week, one week off for different bubbles or alternate days? Nobody wants schools to shut but surely in the long term if we don't get something safer in place and just continue sending kids and adults in day after day, then eventually they will close again?

never this was your comments when I said how wo my children learn at home 60% of time when I am working

Are you saying that you couldn't oversee your children? Pop in to check on occasion that they were on task? Noone was asking you to teach them!!

^Or is it their behaviour that is the issue?
If the focus was on the systems and they were tight i really do not see an issue.^

Something like that you remember!

Our teachers locally are working brilliantly and keeping the schools running

Honestly, this is luck and catchment area, not the schools.

By far - by so far it is hard to over-state - the best school in terms of actual infection control (masks, sanitising, grouping, restricting access to shared areas etc etc) has the most cases locally, because its catchment is very wide and its parent body very likely to test their children (many medics and scientists).

The laxest - despite its frankly woeful prevention measures - has no confirmed tests yet, partly because of a 'dose and send' or 'say it's a cold and have a day or two off' culture amongst the tight local catchment.

Honestly, I would LOVE it to be down to what the school is doing - but with cases coming from the community into schools, not the other way round at the moment, it is the nature of the community, and its determination to test [or not] , that is the main determiner of whether schools are closing or not.

I just don’t feel like education has been privatised at all. In the way other countries have done it.

The Tories just did it for ideology and childcare/economy

Bloody hell this thread is Us4Them all over again. Someone will be along to tell teachers who are unhappy with unsafe working conditions to resign next.

@Bbq1

After lockdown was lifted pre September and pubs, restaurants etc were opened we seemed to have a handle on Covid with cases, hospital admissions and deaths all declining fairly steadily. Since we released millions of school aged children and thousands of teachers etc back into the classroom- boom, cases and consequently deaths, are now growing very rapidly again. It didn't take a rocket scientist to work out that this would happen. I work in a school and I have a 15 year old starting his gcse's so I 100% don't want the schools to close but surely there must be a more workable solution? Couldn't schools be one week, one week off for different bubbles or alternate days? Nobody wants schools to shut but surely in the long term if we don't get something safer in place and just continue sending kids and adults in day after day, then eventually they will close again?

Nope. The rise in cases and the positivity rate started in the week ending 24th August.

Pattern is repeated in numerous places. But not all.

We need to understand WHY its happened in some places simultaneously but not others.

Cases in 10-19 year olds more than doubled, in under tens it tripled since schools opened. All from the community I guess.

@noblegiraffe

Bloody hell this thread is Us4Them all over again. Someone will be along to tell teachers who are unhappy with unsafe working conditions to resign next.

Yip. Usual script.

Brown if you mean my comments, he is not special needs. But he is a 5 year-old who is as good as gold in the classroom but tricky at home.

Children are loving being back at school and taking my class alone trying there best to social distance as 7 years can but have become used to washing hand etc. Yes they do spread viruses as they do in any year. My problem is not the children but the parents who line up at two metre intervals and then walk off in groups not socially distancing at all. Or we get writing journal entries saying we had a party at home and such and such family were invited and then list all the friends and their families that were their often over 30 people in one house from any number of different families. We at school try to adhere strictly to the bubbles principal and see it undermined at the school gate every morning and afternoon. I understand it is difficult regarding childcare and children need social interaction etc but lets try to keep it reasonable especially indoors. I can see outside at playgrounds with more than six children socialising is great but when you think of the interaction of families with children in different levels of schooling and different schools a reasonable approach needs to be thought of. I am not saying stop all interaction outside school but try your best to keep to the rules and actually think how many so called bubbles you are entering When you think about it, suddenly it becomes how much wider your exposure is. If we act sensibly schools will not be forced to close which is definitely not what teachers want. I know sacrifices are and will be made regarding jobs and pressures of keeping children off when having any type of illness made by employers and how difficult it is to work at home with children are around . I personally do not feel safe bit feel I need to be there because my class deserve an education and they have been dealt a really rough hand However if we all work together lets not subject these children to any more loss of school than is necessary. The government need to deliver on the world class track and trace they promised and to be clearer on guide lines and test availability but we as parents, teachers and grandparent etc need to play our part as well. Support your children and school to keep them open by doing the right thing. By doing so we protect the ones we love not the government or a political party,

@Itsasecret can you put link where you read schools were second please

Sorry should be trying their not trying there

Cases were rising massively in my area before schools opened. I worry for school staff tbh. They'll shoulder a lot of blame let alone their own worries possibly about their own vulnerable family members.

My dcs current teachers seem great but the management and admin aren't and it makes me worry more about the safety of teachers more than the pupils

Pubs/restaurants should close and furlough extend for this workforce (yes I know we’ll be paying this back forever).

Clearly as a teacher we don't have a right to safety.
Actually i speak more for people who are teachers in England.
The Tories didn't even try to get the virus down! They were happy to let is circulate.
I truly have sympathy for teachers in England. I think they have it way worse and have been totally thrown under a bus.
But hey ho...that's my opinion.
I'm Scottish.

Remember that it isn;'t the teachers or the schools who decide to close when there is a case or outbreak.

A case brought in from the community = close contacts isolate. 2 cases - shuts the bubble [however large or small that is]. That's the universal recent advice from the helpline that must be rung by the school when positive tests are reported.

Currently, schools are helpless spectators in this. It is possible that if we reach a steady state, in which transmission in school and out of school are about the same, those schools with better infection control will close slightly fewer bubbles, slightly less often. But given the ineffectiveness of the control measures available by any school, that seems very unlikely - closures will still be driven by the nature of the community, local cases, availability and attitude toward testing, and luck. Lots of luck

Great post @Meercatmama

Sure, should medics, utility providers, essential shops etc all work one week on and off too?

The answer is in extensive testing and after 6 months we cant seem to get it right.

Bubbles for secondaries have hundreds in them, so you can’t say they are breaking distancing. Also 3 in school in different years and no-one is home yet.

Local school shut for 2 weeks due to pupil transmission and infection rates.

@Bluelinings

Cases in 10-19 year olds more than doubled, in under tens it tripled since schools opened. All from the community I guess.

I think this may be that parents are getting children tested 'so they can go to school' or 'because they have been sent home from school', rather than because children have caught the infection in school, though.

Higher community infections + schools sending children home with symptoms + parents wondering 'what if' and getting mildly symptomatic children tested = lots more positive tests in children.

Yes, over the coming few weeks, there will also be 'cases caught in school where that is the only contact between that child and others' - but transmission is also happening at clubs, playdates, playgrounds etc etc.

The positivity rate went up AS WELL as the actual number of cases.

The positivity rate going up isn't a good sign.

It suggests there are lots of people who aren't getting tested (possibly because of a shortage of test, lack of accessibility to tests or being unable to afford to take time off work).

What we should be doing is rather than having a discussion about HOW this started, its about HOW we stop it.

Cos with the positivity rate going up, the problem is that only trying to use restrictions to solve the problem isn't going to work.

You need to be on top of the number of cases and have sight of them. If people aren't getting tested theres a problem and an underlying reason for behaviour which is allowing the virus to spread.

Notably this pattern is happening in places that had local lockdowns BEFORE this rise in positivity occured as well as places which weren't and there is a similar trend at a similar rate.

The phrase ‘thrown under a bus’ never heard it pre covid, now it seems to be on every thread. A MN thing?!

Posters saying schools have no or minimal impact what data you have to prove this. Wales 255 schools impacted. NI 100. Schools have contributed to the spike.

Looking at this thread I realise.
If cases were rising before schools opened - they opened in an unsafe way.
If they’re weren’t - well they also clearly opened in an unsafe way.
The government promised a fully functioning track and trace and low transmission. That isn’t the case.
I took a look at the Us4Them group. Their views are disturbing and their campaigning is militant. They have no empathy or conscience for the illness they’ll cause.

@Gwynfluff

Bubbles for secondaries have hundreds in them, so you can’t say they are breaking distancing. Also 3 in school in different years and no-one is home yet.

Luck. We've had a letter today about bubble closing at my DC's school. At least 1400 other schools in same position (4 times as many as last week). Purely a matter of time.