My teens are saying they will ignore any new restrictions

[WearyandBleary]

Big argument this evening. My teens are saying they will ignore any new restrictions because they are mixing at school/college anyway, so what’s the point of not mixing outside of school?

They are really furious. I am quite shocked at how angry they are.

Are they being really selfish? I’m so cross with them. How are other people’s teens taking the possibility of more restrictions?

hmmm I wonder what the difference might be between school kids sitting at different desks in school. And teenage bf/gf hooking up outside of school?

Do they not have lunch breaks at school?

@Inkpaperstars

what about the hundreds possibly thousands of young people who have committed suicide as a direct result of this

Perhaps they had underlying mental conditions? Many on here would therefore presumably regard them as 'vulnerable' and say their suicides could not be determined to be a direct result of covid or covid measures. They must have been vulnerable, they would say, and might well have killed themselves anyway in a few months. They might argue the mentally resilient shouldn't have to take risks just to save those who must have a poor life chance anyway.

I just want to add that all the above is crap, but just highlights the ludicrous double standards.

Also, I read that during lockdown deaths of young men from all causes fell, because they were engaged in less risky activity. Also that many young people surveyed had found stress levels falling away from the normal pressures of school.

My teenage brother had zero mental health issues before lockdown and has since attempted suicide three times. I am petrified for him in another lockdown and I know he is not alone

And big deal teachers will be given priority for tests.
Government have admitted themselves that this latest in a long line of testing fuck ups will take weeks to resolve.

At the rate "bubbles" are closing, by the time it's implemented it will be another one of those too late moments. Just like the corrupt track and trace.

These kids are our future leaders. Them choosing our care homes could be the least of our problems.

@Inkpaperstars

When road accidents start growing exponentially be sure and let us know.

Cars contribute hugely to pollution which could kill millions and millions in the not too far of future - everything is a risk

3424 people die in road traffic accidents a day (obviously worldwide not uk but you understand my point) with thousands more seriously injured daily. We don’t take cars off the roads.
Death is a tragic tragic reality of life that we all accept in every other given circumstance. In 2016 1.6 MILLION children needlessly died of Diarrhea - we did nothing

@Pink98

It’s so true about the poor children that die simply due to lack of clean water, yet no interventions there.... all they need is clean water and yet no help. This doesn’t even affect kids

@TheArtOfStoryTelling

hmmm I wonder what the difference might be between school kids sitting at different desks in school. And teenage bf/gf hooking up outside of school?

Do they not have lunch breaks at school?

Yes, they go to the lunch hall in their year bubbles, but seated in class groups, and afterwards return to the classroom. This isn't happening in all schools but a majority of them to reduce movement and packed corridors.

@Pink98 I am sorry to hear about your brother, I agree that there don't need to be pre existing mental health issues. I was trying to spoof the way people speak about those who are physically affected, but maybe it wasn't clear. I really hope your brother can get some help, for what it's worth if he has made three attempts then you can bend and break the rules as much as possible, it will be more than justified under the care of a vulnerable person.

DS and his mates are sleeping downstairs tonight, when they leave dh will leave the French Doors open all day.

I have said this is the last hurrah and that we would buy the family and to lesser extent them a fire pit for the winter and decent quality blankets. (Luxurious plush on one side and warm sherpa on the reverse) Costcos wording not mine....

I will provide beer, hot chocolate, pizza, hot dogs, anything that they require for a nice evening just not in my house, and no more sleeping in my house for quite some time.

I think that is a halfway decent compromise.

I have had similar conversations with Ds2 and yes it is difficult for them but it is difficult for everyone.

They may have a 'bubble' at school, but how do you know they would stick to it outside school? Of course there is going to be a bit of mixing going on.

I get frustrated hearing 'young people' getting the blame for infection increases. Of course, when schools/colleges/universities reopened and a huge part of the population went from no contact to full contact (with restrictions), the rate was going to increase it was inevitable. Some young people may have had parties, but many stuck to the rules and many adults have been mixing, when they shouldn't as well. Playing the 'blame game' is unfair and counterproductive

@Pink98
Also what about the hundreds possibly thousands of young people who have committed suicide as a direct result of this

I am amazed at how people think they can make up numbers. In about 2 seconds I found ONS data (www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathscausedbysuicidebyquarterinengland)

suicide numbers

2019 q1+q2 10-19 year olds: 100
2020 Q1+Q2 10-19 year olds: 65.

Although it is provisional data there is nothing to suggest that it will grow to thousands when they finalize the numbers in early 2021.

52,000 people have DIED because of this virus. That we know of, and this number is likely to be fudged.

As much as I agree that there is a need to support vulnerable teenagers, in numbers like these, it is best achieved through personal connections (MH experts, GP, school, parents) - this doesn't warrant (imo) a systematic and/or nationwide response. 52k ppl dying does.

I too agree with them and think it all seems like a shambles.

They are going to close pubs? (Not that I want to go to the pub particularly) but you can still get on a plane, go on holiday, and possibly bring it back with you? How is that logical?

I'm not surprised and I have every sympathy with them. Young people are being sidelined, mostly for the sake of extending the lives of ninety somethings. It's unfair and I'm glad young people are starting to stand their ground. I am classed as vulnerable and so is my 70 something Mum but we have led good lives and don't want the lives of children and young people disrupted further in order to protect us.

www.bbc.com/news/health-54228649

I don’t blame them at all, their future is looking really tough. I am not supportive of more restrictions right now either, especially if it’s based on the dodgy graph that Whitty & Valance presented, what a shambles. A ‘what if’ graph based on no real data, no data from France and Spain who they say we are again following, just a literal, oh gee ‘what if cases doubled every 7 days’. It says it on the graph, if. How irresponsible. It’s not happening here now, it’s not happening in France or Spain either. They didn’t even call it a projection. So, what is the purpose of it?

Honestly I don’t know what the hell they’re playing at

mobile.twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1308005483672985600

They are dissatisfied and confused by poor messaging and a lack of clarity from an uninspiring government.

52,000 people have DIED because of this virus

with, the uk records any deaths with and those who tested positive within last month I think it is now, it was longer before.
Every death is sad, expected or not. But we put a cost on death every day, that’s why this country largely ignores the significant flu deaths each year because you have to limit what you’re willing to do to extend the life of people who are elderly and/or very unwell. You have to weigh that against what else might suffer or be affected and by how much. Those figures need to be looked at in context. Not just on their own. The deaths from cancer will soar after this, some predict around 60,000 extra cancer deaths. That’s not ok with me. Neither is burdening the young with our debt. Or making them miserable.

The school I'm at has for had to send home 3 year groups out of 5. Some other schools nearby have sent home 4 out of 5.

However, many pupils are apparently not self isolating like they are supposed to. They are still going out and socialising with mates even those in different bubbles. Obviously this is being sanctioned or allowed by parents many of whom are now complaining about their kids having to stay home for 2 weeks.

At this rate it feels like it will just be staff in school soon.

@Oblomov20

I too agree with them and think it all seems like a shambles.

They are going to close pubs? (Not that I want to go to the pub particularly) but you can still get on a plane, go on holiday, and possibly bring it back with you? How is that logical?

This

My DD is in a year bubble of 180 kids, each year being in a separate block of the school. Many of the children come in on the bus either school buses or public buses. All year groups are mixed together on these buses.
There is no social distancing in classrooms, still 2 to a desk & desks not really far apart.

So yes I'm letting my DD see her best friends (6 of them altogether but not always that many at the same time) after school & at the weekend like most parents round here & up & down the country are doing.

It's the people who are having the big parties/mass gatherings, not quarantining after coming back from holidays in particular countries & getting together in big groups at pubs etc who are causing the spike in cases.
This Government doesn't know it's arse from its elbow.
Wish we had Teresa May back.

@MillyMollyFarmer

52,000 people have DIED because of this virus

with, the uk records any deaths with and those who tested positive within last month I think it is now, it was longer before.
Every death is sad, expected or not. But we put a cost on death every day, that’s why this country largely ignores the significant flu deaths each year because you have to limit what you’re willing to do to extend the life of people who are elderly and/or very unwell. You have to weigh that against what else might suffer or be affected and by how much. Those figures need to be looked at in context. Not just on their own. The deaths from cancer will soar after this, some predict around 60,000 extra cancer deaths. That’s not ok with me. Neither is burdening the young with our debt. Or making them miserable.

Yearly about 27k ppl die from influenza. Without knowing any more about this dataset there is one thing that we do know: there is a vaccine that is available. It would be interesting to know (from a research perspective) how many of these deaths could have been prevented, or how many co-morbidities we there....

But the point is that in 6 months more than double that amount of people died. And even if not dead, the long term (looks like atm) organ damage could be life altering. So -in my opinion- it is not about calculating the price of a life based on age?income?amount of tax payed? disability? .... but it is about doing the best we can as a society to protect each other. Meaning [at least one facet is...] that later down the line we won't have herds (sorry for the word) of people on disability benefits that our children -as taxpayers- will have to subsidize.

You have to weigh that against what else might suffer or be affected and by how much.

I'm sorry but this is the point where I want to scream. All any normal person (+scientists) is asking of anyone is to wear a fucking mask, stay 2 meters apart and wash your hands!!!!
These are not too much to ask! These restrictions and lockdowns are way more disruptive than any frekking mask wearing.
Noone is asking others to sacrifice their firstborne on an altar at midnight on the 7th day of every month!

(data from: www.nomisweb.co.uk/query/asv2htm.aspx)

When road accidents start growing exponentially be sure and let us know

So what? We should only try to protect people from dying of things that grow exponentially? How ... odd.

I feel desperately sorry for all young people. It is really hard for them. I can understand why they are so angry.

My ds is in his early 20s and still lives with us. He found lockdown so difficult at first - wfh so no social interaction at work. Obviously not going out. He was furious when Dominic Cummings broke the rules and after that started not sticking to the rules as rigidly. I wasnt happy about that but I could see where he was coming from.

I find it odd that people can’t see that not sticking to the rules only makes things worse. The more they are broken, the more the virus will spread exponentially and the govt will ramp up the restrictions. We might not agree. We won’t like it but that is what will happen.

They wont be saying this if any of you get stricken down with the virus. But it's no surprise that they have this attitude.

I am totally with your teenagers and think you have wasted a great deal of energy being irrationality angry with them.

They are questioning illogical, contradictory and frankly twatty rules made by incompetent buffoons.

You seemed initially to be waiting to follow this illogical and idiotic dance that the government is leading us. You are now somewhat softening your stance as many posters pointed out that your teens' argument was in fact not at all unreasonable.

Sending them to their Dad's because they have disagreed with the government's twattery wouldn't be a wise move.