My teens are saying they will ignore any new restrictions

[WearyandBleary]

Big argument this evening. My teens are saying they will ignore any new restrictions because they are mixing at school/college anyway, so what’s the point of not mixing outside of school?

They are really furious. I am quite shocked at how angry they are.

Are they being really selfish? I’m so cross with them. How are other people’s teens taking the possibility of more restrictions?

Wait until we are all redundant and people need money, they'll queue alright.
I might be one myself yet I hold a PgCE.
At present being poor is preferable to teaching, but we ain't going hungry yet.

@Pikachubaby what mental health issues they are back at school socialising wigh their friends all day long whilst learning.

There are people who aren't allowed back in offices, live alone and then can't see all their friends now due to limited numbers of people you can meet with. And ontop of that if your shielding its even worse. I think i have more empathy for those people and their mental health then a teenager who gets to see their friends during the day almodg everyday.

Ktp- that is literally not true. Do not believe the nonsense we are being fed by the government!

The young are going to bear the brunt of both Brexit and covid - I don't think they've much to be grateful for.

Yes, they could be grateful they are alive and many of them, in good health - unlike the thousands, who have died from this virus. Interrupted education is a blip, which can be made up in the rest of their lives! Look at the young people, who grew up in WW2 - especially those in concentration camps!

I met someone in China, who had no education for 10 years during the Cultural Revolution, because teachers were sent into the countryside to work. He was our tour guide - which is considered a good job in China! (They obviously have to speak good English and be able to get along with a wide variety of foreigners)

Yes, they could be grateful they are alive and many of them, in good health

That’s a fairly low bar for most young people to be fair

I think most people on here have forgotten what it was like to be young. Not a shred of empathy

I'm baffled by the amount if people that don't grasp the idea if a contact budget.
Limiting who you mix with and how l9ng you mix with people overall.
Work and education have to take priority over socialising to limit how long and how many people you mix with.

It's not rocket science.

I get it but yep am pissed off that I can't spend my time with who I want when I want.

Limiting contacts is a good idea
But if you're in a room all day with your pals then why can't you see them outside school? That part makes no sense.

I don’t blame them.

Big Brother Boris has made no effort to justify any of these new restrictions.

Provided young people are responsible in the way they behave (ie still consider others and social distance/ wear masks etc.) they should live their lives according to their own judgment.

Enough is enough. This is not the Black Death. Covid does not merit the terrible effect on the diagnosis and treatment of non-covid illnesses, job losses, mental health, loneliness.

I feel quite angry that so many are happIly sleepwalking into this abyss.

There are even thousands of old people in care homes who would rather die sooner surrounded by loved ones than drag out a miserable and isolated existence out a few months longer and in doing so sacrifice the futures of the younger generation.

Its uncomfortable to talk about and many seem to wish it wasn't said, but this is something that seems to be quite common among those deemed vulnerable and shielded/protected.

MIL was unfortunately in a carehome for just over a week a couple of months back after a particularly bad stay in hospital and horrific timing that meant me or DH couldn't care for her as much as needed when she left, so they put her temporarily in a home. Now, she was 'lucky' in that is was only 10 days for her, but she was not allowed any visitors at all. We had to drop stuff she needed/wanted off at reception for her then leave. Of course, it makes perfect sense to do this when considering the huge risks those in homes are at given their age and (usually) illnesses. But, MIL claimed to be extremely depressed during the 10 days and spoke to a few other residents, one of whom apparently attempted suicide during the time MIL was there, all of which said they would much rather see their family and take the risk of dying, than be kept way from them for 12 months and drag their lives out an extra year in solitude basically.

It is a horrific thing to think about for sure. And obviously not all in homes will feel that way, some would rather live a bit longer but not see anyone, some might not even have anyone to see so would obviously chose longer lives, ad of course ontop of this homes would not be allowed to say 'most residents want visitors and are willing to risk it, so just open up!' anyway, but it does seem from speaking to people who work in homes, and MIL experience that the people who are being 'kept safe' really do not want that. Proper upsetting to think about. Honestly until that, I had not thought of it that way AT ALL and was all for the measures careohmes were putting in to keep residents safe :(

@LowLou

I'm baffled by the amount if people that don't grasp the idea if a contact budget. Limiting who you mix with and how l9ng you mix with people overall. Work and education have to take priority over socialising to limit how long and how many people you mix with.

It's not rocket science.

I get it but yep am pissed off that I can't spend my time with who I want when I want.

They do get it. This is the point. They can spend 6 hours a day sitting next to someone in school but not meet them socially

@DarkMintChocolate

The young are going to bear the brunt of both Brexit and covid - I don't think they've much to be grateful for.

Yes, they could be grateful they are alive and many of them, in good health - unlike the thousands, who have died from this virus. Interrupted education is a blip, which can be made up in the rest of their lives! Look at the young people, who grew up in WW2 - especially those in concentration camps!

I met someone in China, who had no education for 10 years during the Cultural Revolution, because teachers were sent into the countryside to work. He was our tour guide - which is considered a good job in China! (They obviously have to speak good English and be able to get along with a wide variety of foreigners)

By that token, older people who are alive in the UK ought to be grateful because they weren't murdered during the Cultural Revolution or the Holocaust.

Or perhaps we decide to be a bit more sensible and just leave stuff like that out entirely?

It is a horrific thing to think about for sure. And obviously not all in homes will feel that way, some would rather live a bit longer but not see anyone, some might not even have anyone to see so would obviously chose longer lives, ad of course ontop of this homes would not be allowed to say 'most residents want visitors and are willing to risk it, so just open up!' anyway, but it does seem from speaking to people who work in homes, and MIL experience that the people who are being 'kept safe' really do not want that. Proper upsetting to think about. Honestly until that, I had not thought of it that way AT ALL and was all for the measures careohmes were putting in to keep residents safe :(

What is your solution to this, BatShite? Given the horrific death tolls in care homes have experienced across the world, simply opening them up isn't the answer. A resident may choose to see family of his/her own free will (given there is no dementia involved), but their choice may ultimately impact everyone else in the home and their families - plus the workers and their families. A simple, loving choice is not as easy as it may seem. My mother spent the last 18 months of her life in a care home as a relatively young resident (58) with terminal cancer and early onset dementia, so I have a bit of experience there unfortunately.

Or perhaps we decide to be a bit more sensible and just leave stuff like that out entirely?

Perhaps teenagers should be grateful they are going back to school and can see their friends all day! How many adults are still working from home and suffering loneliness, especially those who are young and supposed to be in training; but aren’t getting it?

How many elderly people have barely seen family and friends since March?

Grateful teenagers ?

The thing for me is that for those at the start or end of their life , passing of time has a lot more meaning. At 50 effectively losing a year of life as I know it is annoying, but I can rationalise it.

This is harder for those at each end of the spectrum than those of us in the middle for many reasons. Expecting people of any age to go around being ecstatic because they're not in a gulag is an unrealistic expectation.

No, but according to The Guardian

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/15/fears-covid-may-leave-thousands-in-uk-with-severe-kidney-disease-long-term-effects-coronavirus

Thousands could be left with severe kidney damage after being in hospital with Covid, and those who had it more mildly in the community may have mild kidney damage. Then there are the other long term complications of Covid like on the brain, lungs, etc.

To say teenagers are bearing the brunt of Covid because they cannot see their friends after school is nonsense. It just shows a complete lack of awareness! If the virus ran unchecked through the population, because people make no effort to comply with restrictions; statistically how many of their parents and extended family would be left with Long Covid, and complications as above? As well as the personal suffering, the cost to the economy, the NHS and welfare state could be enormous.

@DarkMintChocolate

Or perhaps we decide to be a bit more sensible and just leave stuff like that out entirely?

Perhaps teenagers should be grateful they are going back to school and can see their friends all day! How many adults are still working from home and suffering loneliness, especially those who are young and supposed to be in training; but aren’t getting it?

How many elderly people have barely seen family and friends since March?

Perhaps you ought not to assume that teenagers being in school are necessarily seeing their friends: there's no guarantee of that at all. They will be seeing classmates, which is not the same thing.

Honestly though, hectoring adolescents for not being sufficiently grateful is a hiding to nothing. It would still be a hiding to nothing even if you actually had a reasonable argument for why they actually should show gratitude, which you don't. In the slightest. Because that is not how teenage brains work. It's not how most people's work either actually, which is why elderly people aren't responding with relief that hey, at least they're not in concentration camps.

The thing for me is that for those at the start or end of their life , passing of time has a lot more meaning. At 50 effectively losing a year of life as I know it is annoying, but I can rationalise it.

What is the betting that every secondary school contains at least one, if not more, teens in the vulnerable category, who have already lost more time than others to illness or disability and who will now feel nobody cares how much more they lose as long as they are the only ones to pay the cost?

I am 56, I have a 23yo dd in the vulnerable category. I remember the time she turned to me during a discussion of some mildly self-centered teen behaviour of mine and calmly remarked "oh yes, you could afford that". I think she was 14.

A teenage brain is a luxury for the strong and healthy. That's not going to be every teen in your children's school.

Dd is now a young adult. She is able to carry on studying, doing the training she has always dreamt of, as long as she can trust her fellow students to observe social distancing and be careful about infection. If they insist their social life is more important, then they can carry on with the training and the social life, but she will have to drop out altogether.

And in her small school of about 100 students, she has mentioned at least half a dozen who are in the same boat.

I totally understand where they're coming from. Schools aren't following distancing / bubble rules anyway. It must seem like carnage. I don't know a single person who hasn't broken some rules but at the same time those people follow others. As long as everyone is following most, as the government are expecting, that's the best we can hope for. I think the governments tone is blame filled, telling everyone off for breaches when they encouraged everyone to get out and about.

Like I said, I don't know a single person following all the rules

Young people are not stupid.
They see that previous generations have not protected the environment, the economy or world stability.
So those generations telling them that they’re selfish falls on dusty ground. Certainly anyone telling them about WW2 is a joke as that person almost certainly won’t have been alive to sacrifice at the time.

Put it this way there are people who have worked since leaving uni, started businesses etc or just worked to afford a house and just have a decent life and only to find its all going to be taken away, everything they worked for and built up gone cos theire business folded or lost their jobs.

Imagine being 40 or 50yrs old and its gone. Its not going to be easy to get that back. All those years of saving or sacrifice to get to where you are.

Whereas a teenager missing a less than yr worth of education or not being able to socialise in the evening is hardly destroying everything they have worked hard to build. All beoming well they will still be able to achieve their goals and dreams.

That's not how it works for cohorts graduating into recessions. As a group, they don't catch up. Some do, but not enough of them to mitigate the total effect. Those first years after leaving education are utterly crucial.

@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer

That's not how it works for cohorts graduating into recessions. As a group, they don't catch up. Some do, but not enough of them to mitigate the total effect. Those first years after leaving education are utterly crucial.

Isn't it occurring to them "as a group"? And across the world? So, in that sense, 'catch-up' isn't as much of of an issue when compared with their own cohort.

I think it’s just awful what has happened to young children/ teens/ young adults and I can understand how upset and angry they are.
This was for three weeks only to flatten the curve ..and we did it.
Now here we are and they and us still don’t have their lives back.
As for people locked away in care homes, that is truly heartbreaking.
Thank god my parents went before all of this madness.

That should have read..6 months later and still no end in sight.
No wonder, everyone is angry and frustrated.