Coronavirus is airborne - mask up

[parietal]

I recently commented on a thread about hand-washing that the coronavirus is airborne and a bunch of people jumped on to argue. Here, I want to make the case that this thing really is airborne and that is what we need to focus on

Back in Feb / March, we did not know much about the virus but now there is more and more evidence that this thing spreads through the air. Not just big droplets on surfaces, and not just someone coughing in your face. Just breathing the same air as an infected person is enough to spread the virus.

Most of these papers are from
twitter.com/AliNouriPhD/status/1305899457540771847?s=20 who is a molecular biologist. I'm just summarising them here

1. In a call centre in Korea, 1 person infected 94 out of 216 colleagues on the same floor. The people who caught covid worked in the same room but at distant desks. Others on the same floor (sharing lifts & bathrooms) did not catch it.

2. Restaurant in china with 5 big round tables. 3 tables had a re-circulating aircon system above all 3 - one covid case at the middle table spread to 9 people at the other 2 tables. But there were also 2 tables on a different aircon system and none of the people at those tables got covid.

3. In Starbucks in Korea, one lady with covid spent an hour chatting to a friend. 26 people in the same starbucks got infected BUT the 4 employees (who were wearing masks) did not
   edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-08-25-20-intl/h_d88a8d6e5ee96dd569bd1be5d494de45

4. the virus has been captured in air at least 5m from patients and can survive for 16 hours in the air

The more we understand about the virus, the better we can defend against it. And all this data suggests that the most important thing is don't breathe the same air - big open spaces with fresh air are good. And if you can't stay in an open space, wear a mask.

Just doesn’t make sense that they are seeing so many fewer cases even with tracing.

Contact tracing (combined with testing and isolation) can be incredibly effective at taking the virus out of circulation. It's hard to appreciate this if you just look at the useless shitshow we've got in this country.

I wish all the people who are so angry about others not wearing masks would get angry about this instead.

My experience of tracing so far in Scotland is ok.

Could be a support group for people with asthma, autism, and unreportable psychological conditions. Don’t judge.

What, all the dozens of groups of young people not wearing masks I see every day?

Of course they are.

Time will tell but they are using more local networks, apparently.

A family member has been at the edge of a cluster and it all seems to be going well so far. Fingers crossed.

I joked and asked if the "spreader" for want of a better word was a loudmouth, they apparently do have that reputation! 😉

I don’t like wearing masks, don’t particularly agree with them and avoid going to places where I have to wear them. I wore one to the dentist yesterday.

What don't you agree with if you don't mind me asking Funky?

(I find them a pain tbh. But I'm in the anything that might help camp.)

We don't know how well contact tracing is working in Scotland because the data has not been made available. It doesn't sound marvellous TBH.

www.heraldscotland.com/news/18735147.health-expert-calls-improvements-scotlands-coronavirus-tracking/

[quote Guylan]@TheSunIsStillShining, I may be remembering wrongly but I thought I read some say the evidence for airborne transmission from smaller aerosols suggest it still may account for only 10% of exhaled air whilst the larger droplets the other 90% (you may know more as said I can’t remember, I may be wrong I read that, and don’t have a source to cite) If this is true then cotton and surgery masks (the blue ones) will as you say barely reduce blocking the smaller aerosols coming from the person’s mouth and nose, but will still block the larger droplets from spreading.[/quote]
@Guylan

Great layman article:
www.news-medical.net/health/The-Size-of-SARS-CoV-2-Compared-to-Other-Things.aspx

Everything in one thread from an actual scientist:
(spread videos, airflow videos, facts)
twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1308008060854599686

Here is the N95 info from one of the suppliers:
www.honeywell.com/en-us/newsroom/news/2020/03/n95-masks-explained

Lancet article about respiratory illness' droplet size + masks:
www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30323-4/fulltext

Langcleg yes I'd like to hear about clusters from authorities not just through the grapevine.

It's frustrating to know more about spread in Gangelt or Seoul than the UK. (Apart from the ski chalet man at the start.)

We appear to be disorganised, or scared to communicate, or both.

Thankfully school wise for us 90% of our class rooms have one entire glass wall that’s fully openable with then additional roofing so we can ventilate really well. Although as it gets colder I’m not sure what they will do.

Secondary however the window window barely crack an inch “safety” reasons apparently.

@IfOnlyOurEyesSawSouls

I think there are far more people that can mask up that aren't at least trying.

Iv heard so many asthmatics say they cant wear masks , yet the asthmatic society really advocates that people try to get use to the uncomfortable feeling in their home first and build up their tolerance.

My DH has moderate persistent asthma and has worked hard to be at a stage where he can fully wear one now .

I'm asthmatic along with my Mum and we wear one for shops etc, albeit try and get in and out fairly quickly.

I'd struggle on public transport therefore will avoid it.

@SallySeven
I bought these ones. They don't make any medical claims but they are comfortable, adjustable, and have to be more effective than the single layer of cotton ones I had before.
www.amazon.co.uk/Printed-Fashion-Washable-Reusable-Activities/dp/B08F9G1PRG/ref=mp_s_a_1_35?dchild=1&keywords=face+masks+with+filter&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1600768337&sr=8-35

No it's the type of low tech but 3 layer I've been after. Thanks.

I've been making these, they fit well all round the edges but sit away from your mouth and nose so don't feel so suffocating. I'm using non-woven polypropylene interfacing for the middle layer.

Wow! Thanks.

Last week on a local train a woman was pulling her mask down and coughing in the faces of people without masks including elderly people and children. No amount of anxiety around people without masks excuses that sort of behaviour. I hope they find her and lock her up.

If I'd been one of the people she'd done that to, unfortunately I'd have dropped her on the spot. Regardless of her reasons, that's totally out of order.

Most of the evidence relating to the benefit of masks relates to medical quality, not Joe Public, whipped out of my pocket, meets the minimal requirement, washed it last month-must swap it soon jobbies. Much of the complying population are basically wearing a handkercheif on their face, and nothing more effective than that.

The safest place to be is outside and sensible with spacing and low densities of people. Sometimes as with schools, that is not practical and the societal benefits far outweigh the hazards of practical mitigation. Far more u18s have died from suicide or murder than the virus since March.

Hand hygiene is no bad thing (unless taken to extremes of skin damage) but there is far too much emphisis on masks rather than space. Socialising is inevitable at this stage of fatigue and better to permit it outside in the safest environment than drive it secretly inside to the highest risk place.

As somebody mask-exempt (trust me it's better not to wear one and have to take it off when I begin hyperventilating) and who is averse to even seeing the things (probably originating with traumatic births, plus auditory processing difficilties) the best thing I can say about them is that they are an effective deterrent to the concept of indoor leisure where they are mandated. Crap for keeping those industries going though. Even DH who is obedient about it won't go anywhere where they are required for more than an hour for something essential.

that’s a rather selfish, bitter and twisted way to approach life methinks

Its almost as if actions have consequences.

@redlockscelt @cbt944 Im on those threads. Ive never referred to masks as face nappies. I didnt start off on those threads. I joined them because of the attitudes shown towards people who cant wear masks. There is no disability discrimination on those threads. Unlike these ones. Uncomfortable for you to hear but true.

And the amount posting there are growing in number after delurking.

I guess thats the result of people being alienated and othered.

Hmm 5 pages in and yet no mention of the Tory MP who forgot to wear one on a train.

Someone made a point about Singapore on another thread:
People there are compliant and really only very small percentage don't wear masks. And everyone assumes that they are really the ones who have actual medical reason not to do so.

Here: everyone has a made up medical reason and there are more ppl not wearing masks than wearing one. So, yes the question does spring to mind: are these reasons valid in these numbers?
If really only people would not be wearing mask as a very last resort, than then truly non-masked for real medically reason people would not be harassed. But when tom, dick and harry say that they can't bear it and gives them mental health issues... what do you expect? (and then they go to the pub, of course)

It's similar to the disabled badges. Once you can get one for silly reasons or corruption, it loses its value and people question it's validity. So the minority who actually need it are being ostracized because another minority misuse/abuse it.

I don't care about random Tory MPs . I have no expectations in that direction.

@SallySeven But the connotation there is that its the general public who should wear masks to protect their "betters"

I rest my case re. my post at 13.38