Coronavirus is airborne - mask up

[parietal]

I recently commented on a thread about hand-washing that the coronavirus is airborne and a bunch of people jumped on to argue. Here, I want to make the case that this thing really is airborne and that is what we need to focus on

Back in Feb / March, we did not know much about the virus but now there is more and more evidence that this thing spreads through the air. Not just big droplets on surfaces, and not just someone coughing in your face. Just breathing the same air as an infected person is enough to spread the virus.

Most of these papers are from
twitter.com/AliNouriPhD/status/1305899457540771847?s=20 who is a molecular biologist. I'm just summarising them here

1. In a call centre in Korea, 1 person infected 94 out of 216 colleagues on the same floor. The people who caught covid worked in the same room but at distant desks. Others on the same floor (sharing lifts & bathrooms) did not catch it.

2. Restaurant in china with 5 big round tables. 3 tables had a re-circulating aircon system above all 3 - one covid case at the middle table spread to 9 people at the other 2 tables. But there were also 2 tables on a different aircon system and none of the people at those tables got covid.

3. In Starbucks in Korea, one lady with covid spent an hour chatting to a friend. 26 people in the same starbucks got infected BUT the 4 employees (who were wearing masks) did not
   edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-08-25-20-intl/h_d88a8d6e5ee96dd569bd1be5d494de45

4. the virus has been captured in air at least 5m from patients and can survive for 16 hours in the air

The more we understand about the virus, the better we can defend against it. And all this data suggests that the most important thing is don't breathe the same air - big open spaces with fresh air are good. And if you can't stay in an open space, wear a mask.

@BikeTyson

The fact that it’s airborne means space is so much more important than masks. The hands, face, space message is completely the wrong way round in terms of order of priority (I appreciate space, face, hands doesn’t sound nearly as snappy).

No this makes no sense either. In situations where it has become airborne there is little point staying 2 metres apart because it will travel further than that.

The observational studies of 'superspreading events' suggest it has become airborne in some circumstances because it has infected people at greater distances.

@LangClegsInSpace

Why has this turned into yet another exemption bashing thread?

If you are telling people to wear a mask 'because it's airborne' you really can't accuse others of being 'hard of thinking'

Wear a mask if you can, leave other people alone.

They always do. It seems to me that there should be absolutely no reason for not wearing one, even if it causes extreme pain.

There is an exemption policy - if you see someone without a mask, assume they're exempt and move on.

What about the idiots who have a mask, but like wearing it around their chin, or they think it works if they carry the mask in their hand.

Also, big groups of young people, no one wearing a mask, it's statistically impossible they are all exempt.

It was good to see inspectors on the trains yesterday, checking for masks.

When posters are banging on about 'I saw X number of people without masks today, they can't all be exempt', you bet I'm going to say something. If you'd been hissed at, sworn at, called vile names, tutted at and glared at, you might, too.

That's unfortunate, but why aren't getting upset with the pillocks not wearing masks with no good reason, who are making it difficult for the genuinely exempt people?

No this makes no sense either. In situations where it has become airborne there is little point staying 2 metres apart because it will travel further than that.

But space doesn’t just mean “stand 2 metres away” - it means avoid enclosed or confined spaces, spend more time out of doors. I really think the government have missed a trick making outdoor activity subject to the same restrictions as indoors because it makes them seem like they’re the same level of risk when they’re not.

There was a post when lockdown first started and I can't find it now but a poster suggested it was airborne due to how infectious it seemed to be and they got ripped apart on here.
Basically every single post mocking them, accusing them of being a nut job and how do they know better than WHO and they were crazy etc etc.

I wonder what the mob will do knowing they got it wrong

@BikeTyson

No this makes no sense either. In situations where it has become airborne there is little point staying 2 metres apart because it will travel further than that.

But space doesn’t just mean “stand 2 metres away” - it means avoid enclosed or confined spaces, spend more time out of doors. I really think the government have missed a trick making outdoor activity subject to the same restrictions as indoors because it makes them seem like they’re the same level of risk when they’re not.

Messaging fail on their part then. Again.

That's unfortunate, but why aren't getting upset with the pillocks not wearing masks with no good reason, who are making it difficult for the genuinely exempt people?

Because they're not posting here. Most of the comments I see on MN about those not wearing masks are doubting exemption/suggesting there should be no exemptions/that we're not trying hard enough/that we should wear visors.

If you can wear a mask, you should. If you can't, you shouldn't be judged or abused. It's not hard.

So there is a strict scientific definition of airborne.

This assumes some cut off point where this tiny portion of your exhaled air under discussion acts either a falling heavy droplet or becomes small in enough to hang, together with all of its mates, in the air. Maybe when we are breathing we breathe out particles of all sizes. So aerosolization would be far, far less than in the medical procedures but it's still there. Plus some very tiny falling droplets that take quite some time to drop. At this point you can imagine wearing a mask at 2 m distance might be handy against those drops AND dilution by ventilation might be pretty useful for any aerosolization.

Arguing the toss over falling droplet / hanging in the air is right now fairly cart horse / stable door imo. I mean it's fascinating on one level but the work doesn't seem to be definitive on respiratory transmission in general. If it was then why ARE protocols so different among public health SCIENTISTS in different countries? At this point on discussing mask wearing the WHO went for "cultural differences". Forgive me for remaining unimpressed.

Surely if we had a better system for exemptions for those who can't wear masks, there would be less suspicion of them by the general public? There are a lot of people who just don't want to (there's certainly plenty on Mumsnet) and they're tarring those with wholly genuine needs with the same brush.

It's not pleasant having to prove that you have a disability of some kind in order to gain a particular exemption or privilege (believe me, I know) but if you need society to make allowances for you then it seems a reasonable ask.

[quote ILoveAllRainbowsx]**@turnitonagain

I agree that wearing masks will help (as long as people are careful when they take them off etc).

However, the fact that cities in Asia are doing better than us does necessarily mean that it is mainly down to wearing masks.

These cities have had pandemics in the last few years which did not really reach us and so may have already built up an immunity to Covid 19.[/quote]
I think it's mainly because they have very good contact tracing and isolation systems, developed in response to previous disease outbreaks.

Also, big groups of young people, no one wearing a mask, it's statistically impossible they are all exempt.

Could be a support group for people with asthma, autism, and unreportable psychological conditions. Don’t judge.

Mask wearing has been strictly enforced I France and Spain and it doesn't seem to have had the same effect as in Asia. I've been trying to find reliable data on whether respiratory illnesses in general circulate less freely in mask wearing cultures but it doesn't seem widely reported.

I agree with you and many of us have thought COVID is airborne for quite a while now. I caught the virus myself way back at the end of March while sitting in the same room as a small child (at school, literally just before lockdown) while waiting for parents to come and collect.

But you won't get many sympathisers on here as others don't believe it. COVID isn't the only virus airborne however, many coughs and colds and such-like are caught by air transmission, it isn't always sneezed-on handles and door-knobs; you only have to catch someone's breath or the air they have just breathed and there you go....

Outdoors is much, much better for this reason, greater dispersal, much quicker dispersal, more space etc.

Quite why the UK authorities haven't been pushing vitamin D / sunshine is another one that is beyond me.

Benefits of vitamin D was widely reported earlier in the summer. I expect this hasn’t been officially pushed because it would lead to shortages for people who genuinely need it (breast feeding mothers for example, I struggled to get hold of it for a while after all the press reports).

Spain had discos and nightclubs open. That seemed weird.

My thoughts on Asia - if you’ve been to Tokyo or Hong Kong the population density in central areas is incomparable to the UK. Neither city ever shut their subways and in Tokyo for example they have staff push people in to stuff the cars full of people. Just doesn’t make sense that they are seeing so many fewer cases even with tracing.

I wouldn’t make a genetic argument as SARS came from China and I’m not sure Chinese people are any more genetically similar to Koreans or Japanese than other ethnic groups.

Sunshine is free.

Actually Jason Leitch Scottish spokesperson on medical matters did point out that 10 minutes in the Scottish sun wasn't going to harm most people. Which I was glad of.

"it's statistically impossible they are all exempt."

No it's not. Statistically impossible is zero. It's not zero.

@SallySeven

Spain had discos and nightclubs open. That seemed weird.

And lots of tourists.

"Surely if we had a better system for exemptions for those who can't wear masks, there would be less suspicion of them by the general public?"

There isn't one and that is not the fault of those who are exempt.

Last week on a local train a woman was pulling her mask down and coughing in the faces of people without masks including elderly people and children. No amount of anxiety around people without masks excuses that sort of behaviour. I hope they find her and lock her up.

My top tip if people find the "sucky in when breathing" sensation unpleasant - buy some masks with a disposable filter pocket. The filter really improves the effectiveness of the mask, and stops that slightly suffocating feeling of breathing the mask into your mouth you can sometimes get especially if you have to talk through it. An added bonus is, it seems to stop my glasses steaming up.
I couldn't believe how much more comfortable it was.

CulturallyAppropriated can you recommend one?!

I was overcome by searching fatigue and bought some poor quality supermarket jobs for the summer. I'd like something more possibly genuinely useful moving into autumn.

I posted about this months ago. Similar responses. Wear a mask and encourage others to do so. Close gatherings are clearly more risky