It's just an overreaction.

[madcow88]

Now don't get me wrong I followed the rules to the letter and still am doing as I don't want to break the law.

However I think it's all a massive overreaction and I don't want to sit by and allow my children's generation to be destroyed.

Their education is totally fucked, they will not get to have the same social experiences as we did as young people.

Why is everyone happily sitting by and allowing our government to restrict our lives over a virus that kills 0.01% of people. Whilst 1000s of people are dying every day due to the lack of treatment and social interactions.

I really just do not feel comfortable with all the laws on our freedom being changed so dramatically over a virus if truth be told is not as deadly as they would like us to be believed.

Don't get me wrong I have sympathy for those people who lost their lives and for the people who will lose their lives in the future but no more than for the people who die of flu and other viruses each year.

'Without underlying conditions' and 'healthy' aren't precisely synonymous, by the way.

We haven’t got a bottomless pit of cash

And yet again: we literally do. Should we choose so.

[quote AlecTrevelyan006]On Talk Radio just now Julia Hartley Brewer asked Dominic Raab if he had any clue the number of healthy people

@multivac

Ok, let’s tweak the statement. Yes we have a bottomless pit of (borrowed) cash, on top of the bottomless pit of (borrowed) cash we had already (borrowed) pre-pandemic, but we have to consider how long we want the economic aftermath to endure afterwards for ourselves & our children when making our decision on how long this pandemic should run in the possible event of no vaccine/effective treatment.

Given that the government seemingly want to keep this bubbling away under NHS capacity to avoid ugly scenes, these restrictions could be in force in some guise for quite a while.

How long do people want to live like this? Six months in & BoJo is already sounding the klaxon to rally the troops as he senses a significant - minority of?- people are getting fed up with it.

How long do people want to live like this? Six months in & BoJo is already sounding the klaxon to rally the troops as he senses a significant - minority of?- people are getting fed up with it.

Course they are 🤷‍♀️

but we have to consider how long we want the economic aftermath to endure afterwards for ourselves & our children when making our decision on how long this pandemic should run in the possible event of no vaccine/effective treatment.

Of course.

Balanced with growing knowledge of treatment of the virus
and development of vaccine.

Not in isolation.

@AlecTrevelyan006

All other things being equal, I would save the young person. As I’m sure most people would

Depends on how young. My immediate thought was that a fit 18 year old would give up their life jacket for an old person as the older person would be helpless in the sea, but an 18 year old could swim.

but we have to consider how long we want the economic aftermath to endure afterwards for ourselves & our children when making our decision on how long this pandemic should run in the possible event of no vaccine/effective treatment

And Given this is the bleeding obvious in "pandemic management "

and not an actual strategy in itself .refer you to
previous statement

*And unless anyone here is bunking off from their job in a vaccine lab or the treasury.

How the fuck do you know when that is?*

Though not sure you "decide" how long a pandemic should run?

Suppose you mean " this way of dealing with the pandemic" ?

How long do people want to live like this? Six months in & BoJo is already sounding the klaxon to rally the troops as he senses a significant - minority of?- people are getting fed up with it.

I’m fed up with it. I don’t want to live like this. However, what’s the realistic alternative that doesn’t involve the risk of many 10,000s - possibly 100,000s - more dying (or both Covid and non-Covid causes) and screwing the economy at least as much as we currently are in the process?

We are adopting a “Sweden“ strategy now - admittedly with some additional social restrictions - in that we’re looking to manage the virus by keeping schools and most businesses open (btw, Sweden’s entertainment and sports sectors are screwed by the way too and have recently had a massive bailout as they clearly couldn’t operate at close to capacity given their restrictions).

However, the libertarians and denialists are agitating for something else - for us all to adopt behaviour at odds with Sweden’s approach and for us all get back completely to normal along with a vague and empty “protect the vulnerable” adage to give them a veneer of humanity!

They are the reason why we can’t be the “Sweden“ they love to praise, and whose policy of not locking down and keeping businesses and schools open i want us to emulate as we go through the winter. The Government may have screwed up previously, but they are the problem right now.

@sunglassesonthetable

Are you suggesting there isn’t an element of choice here?

Of course there is.

Off out now to enjoy what’s left of personal freedom and privilege for a couple of hours. Ciao.

*Are you suggesting there isn’t an element of choice here?
*
There's always choices.😁

You'll be back. Don't choke on your flat white.

Boris just confirmed in PMQ's that it is the governments official policy to try to suppress the virus until a vaccine is available.

We could be in this purgatory for years.

Bye bye economy, jobs, social life, holidays, grandparents, gatherings, live sport, gigs and festivals ... was nice knowing you.

Dig In Alec.

Yeah cos there is no way on earth that the economy would tank if we just let the virus get on with things and kill a few tens or hundred of thousand of people ...naw, life would be normal

@Derbygerbil

We haven’t got a bottomless pit of cash so the time we can wait for vaccines/treatment is limited by that. Anybody not acknowledging that is in Ostrich mode.

I agree, which is why we need the economy to be as operational as possible. I am genuinely interested in what our alternatives are, as what we have at present is pretty shit..... it’s just that the alternatives seem even shitter.

The alternative is a belated Australia and New Zealand approach.

Two-three months strict lockdown WITH borders closed. Get cases down. Then reopen - but keep borders shut. Proper quarantine where necessary for essential travel, i.e. freight and asylum. Then we'd be able to properly start an economic recovery and a return to normal.

Otherwise we continue like this, a shit situation staying shit and probably getting shitter, until something like this time next year.

Unfortunately I strongly suspect too many will insist we can't, we can't, we can't, and so we'll simply continue with this shitty on off, on off, dragged out shit show of economic destruction, needless deaths, and potentially large numbers of long-term disabled with Long Covid.

Agree with the OP

@AlecTrevelyan006

Boris just confirmed in PMQ's that it is the governments official policy to try to suppress the virus until a vaccine is available.

We could be in this purgatory for years.

Bye bye economy, jobs, social life, holidays, grandparents, gatherings, live sport, gigs and festivals ... was nice knowing you.

You make this sound like its news.

This was always the case and anyone paying attention realised this.

But there are so many trials around the world currently running with enormous amounts of money and government will behind it that its extremely unlikely we will be in purgatory for 'years'.

Everything ive heard thars public and everything ive heard from people directly involved in vaccine projects is really positive.

The key issue for the uk isn't developing a vaccine its distributing it to the public in an efficient and timely fashion.

We are likely to see this widespread in spring next year which should give us the summer to crack on with this before we hit next autumn.

The fights are going to be about who gets priority access...

Will MPs and celebrities get priority access?
(I bet they do/have already had).

"Bye bye economy, jobs, social life, holidays, grandparents, gatherings, live sport, gigs and festivals ... was nice knowing you"

Maybe you should stop spreading this doom laden scaremongering.

Everything ive heard thars public and everything ive heard from people directly involved in vaccine projects is really positive

Except the Oxford trial is still on hold in the USA

@cathyandclare

Everything ive heard thars public and everything ive heard from people directly involved in vaccine projects is really positive

Except the Oxford trial is still on hold in the USA

Probably for just long enough to give the US vaccine a headstart.

@walksen

"Bye bye economy, jobs, social life, holidays, grandparents, gatherings, live sport, gigs and festivals ... was nice knowing you"

Maybe you should stop spreading this doom laden scaremongering.

I agree, The world recovered from a World War which killed millions of fit young men, followed directly by a pandemic which caused lockdowns, unrest and all the issues we are facing now. We will recover from this too. It's horrible and depressing and scary, but it won't last forever.

JCVI's priority list for vaccine distribution is HCPs, ECVs (assuming safe for them) then other key workers. Then I think other vulnerable.

But that might change by the time a vaccine is ready.

MPs would count under key workers (some might also be ECV)

Honestly, I would be all for the '2 week circuit breaker lockdown' idea, IF I trusted thats how it would work. But as it stands, we were told the last lockdown would be short term, few weeks, and it ended up being 4 months as flattening the curve turned into 'omg, some people are still dying/infected' as if the point of it all was to eradicate the virus. If I trusted public pressure wouldn't hit and end up being months worth of lockdowns instead of the fortnight then the 2 week intermittent lockdowns until vaccine seems the simplest answer.