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It's just an overreaction.

890 replies

madcow88 · 19/09/2020 10:56

Now don't get me wrong I followed the rules to the letter and still am doing as I don't want to break the law.

However I think it's all a massive overreaction and I don't want to sit by and allow my children's generation to be destroyed.

Their education is totally fucked, they will not get to have the same social experiences as we did as young people.

Why is everyone happily sitting by and allowing our government to restrict our lives over a virus that kills 0.01% of people. Whilst 1000s of people are dying every day due to the lack of treatment and social interactions.

I really just do not feel comfortable with all the laws on our freedom being changed so dramatically over a virus if truth be told is not as deadly as they would like us to be believed.

Don't get me wrong I have sympathy for those people who lost their lives and for the people who will lose their lives in the future but no more than for the people who die of flu and other viruses each year.

OP posts:
BatShite · 23/09/2020 17:11

What I do think is that lockdowns wouldn't be needed if people were sensible and followed the lesser restrictions in place. But as many people seemed to take lockdown lifting and schools going back as an "all clear" they only have themselves to blame when stricter rules come in.

Nonsense. Even if every person adhered to the rules 100%, thye numbers would still be rising due to opening things up. Was always going to happen. Its useful though for the government that so many are willing to blame rulebreakers, when if you think about it for just a second, its quite obvious that either way, numbers would rise as people went back to work, schools went back, etc.

WouldBeGood · 23/09/2020 17:17

I agree @madcow88

I’m no Covid denier but this is all going too far now.

Mischance · 23/09/2020 17:17

I guess you might call me old - 72.

I have devoted my life to caring for others: people with brain injury, mental illness and other disadvantages. I also brought up my children and have been a key carer for my GC. And as soon as I retired I found myself as carer to my OH who has recently died of PD and pneumonia.

Suddenly I find myself with a life of my own - lonely and sad at present as I recover from bereavement - but a chance to do some of the things that have never been possible for me.

Is it the plan of some to throw me under a bus? Just to let me get this virus and risk death?

I am deeply grateful to those who are abiding by the rules - you are doing it for me and others like me and I thank you for it.

madcow88 · 23/09/2020 22:36

If we have to wait for a vaccine to create herd immunity then I worry we will be in this mess for years. If rolling out a vaccine is anything like the way they've rolled out test and trace we have got no chance. This god forsaken government can't get anything right.

OP posts:
AlecTrevelyan006 · 24/09/2020 00:09

@walksen

"Bye bye economy, jobs, social life, holidays, grandparents, gatherings, live sport, gigs and festivals ... was nice knowing you"

Maybe you should stop spreading this doom laden scaremongering.

Almost one million people have already lost their job with many more to follow

If that doesn’t worry then you’ll be in for a rude awakening soon enough

walksen · 24/09/2020 04:11

"Almost one million people have already lost their job with many more to follow

If that doesn’t worry then you’ll be in for a rude awakening soon enough"

Recessions are not a new thing. It's not the first or last recession in our lifetime. And unemployment has been much higher at times.

The government found 450 BN for the financial crisis and they'll come up with something to replace furlough, and the economy will bounce back strongly.

You are making out it's the end of the world..last month you were posting "it's all over".

AlecTrevelyan006 · 24/09/2020 08:00

The virus is not the end of the world - our over reaction to it is causing the problem

attackedbycritters · 24/09/2020 08:13

It's so clear it's an over reaction because the economies that are doing best are the ones that have reacted much harder , from China to New Zealand, , whilst the ones that are suffering have tried to balance economy and virus in some way , from USA to Sweden, ....oh hang on ...

Mischance · 24/09/2020 09:45

It is not an overreaction - speak to a virologist or epidemiologist.

Unless these are within your specialist knowledge then please accept that they might know better than you.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 24/09/2020 10:04

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1308889807725236224.html

Reading the transcript of Whitty/Vallance lecture yesterday. I quote: “so about eight per cent, so 3 million or so people, may have been infected and have antibodies. It means that the vast majority of us are not protected in any way and are susceptible to this disease”.

Now had he said this on the floor of the House, he would have been guilty of misleading the House & made to come back, apologise profusely & set the record straight. But he wasn’t & also didn’t take any questions. I have to tell you that it’s not a matter of opinion. He’s LYING.

We know from the shape of the daily deaths vs time curve in U.K. & elsewhere that there is a force which caused the rapidly expanding pandemic in March to slow down & then to continue spreading at an ever decreasing rate, having already begun to decline before lockdown. This is crucial. As it wasn’t lockdown which terminated the rapid expansion, alternative candidates for that force, which we are certain exists by inspection of the graph, are required. There is ONLY ONE candidate for that force. It is reducing remaining population susceptibility.

As that fell continuously, R was soon below 1 & stayed like that for 16 weeks straight. That our curve is the same shape as that in multiple other countries, including Sweden, ignoring our puny efforts to influence transmission of this respiratory virus, tells us with 100% confidence that a substantial proportion of the U.K. population has already been infected & most have survived. Crucially it’s been demonstrated by at least 4 “Oxbridge quality” labs in several countries around the world, than in all cases, 20-50% of people had T-cell immune recognition of SARS-COV-2 BEFORE the new virus was even identified. Add those newly infected to those already resistant to the virus, and there is the locus of the force bearing down on transmission. There isn’t any serious doubt about it. To antibodies.

The reason I accuse Sir Patrick, in public, of LYING is that I know that he, like me, is well aware of much literature on the extent to which infected people produce antibodies. Only the most seriously ill were certain to produce antibodies at high levels which persisted for some time. But those who were infected & had a milder course of illness, not all produced antibodies & their levels fell away rather speedily.
Those who were infected yet showed few times no symptoms did not go in to produce antibodies. The reasons make sense, too. If you resisted the virus easily, you didn’t need to go through the slow & energetically expensive route of making antibodies, because you had other, perhaps so called “innate immune” mechanisms to protect you. Come along months later & test people for antibodies: of course you’ll find only those people who had a bad time of it. Most of the others didn’t need antibodies & will be negative but they have been infected. Plainly put: the % with antibodies HUGELY underestimated the proportion of the population who are resistant to infection. Don’t believe them when they scare you with their extreme predictions. It’s between implausible & impossible for a resurgence, which I term a #SecondaryRipple , to grow to any great size. It won’t rise anything like as speedily as in spring. It will soon plateau, begin to decline & that will be that.

A test: if the position was not, broadly, as I’ve painted it, you’d expect the most rapid resurgence in dense population centres, like London. That isn’t what’s happening. The reemergence is mostly limited to NW & NE, areas where probably the mixing of people was less complete before our foolish Govt put in place additional restrictions. It was this which prevented us being where Sweden now is. But if we keep our nerve & pay attention to the experienced & pragmatic Prof Carl Heneghan, this will soon be over. It’s completely ludicrous that our appear even to be contemplating more, chaotic & destructive acts. Anyone with influence on their MP, I beg of you: download this tweet string, send it to your MP & tell them I will personally explain this to them: they can decide if they’re being lied to.

They are.
Sue me.

Michael Yeadon

walksen · 24/09/2020 10:05

"our over reaction to it is causing the problem"

You definetely seem to be over reacting!

Lweji · 24/09/2020 10:06

@Mischance

It is not an overreaction - speak to a virologist or epidemiologist.

Unless these are within your specialist knowledge then please accept that they might know better than you.

THIS!
candourclegane · 24/09/2020 10:30

AlecTrevelyan006

But WHY would Vallance et al lie to us?

BlueRose18 · 24/09/2020 10:30

It is so f*ing refreshing to see someone else with this mindset!! This whole situation is making me so angry!
People so willingly giving out their personal details and allowing their freedoms to be taken in the name of “safety”. All it takes is a bit of research and looking at statistics to see that the death rate is so low especially now as well. I don’t necessarily believe the conspiracies, I don’t know what to believe in that sense but this is definitely an overreaction!
A virus can not be controlled. Death is inevitable. As sad as it is. People die, that’s a cycle of life.
I think we should definitely all have the choice to live our life and deal with this how we see fit for ourselves.
It also pisses me off when people call me selfish just for thinking this way. Excuse me but I’m not responsible for the lives of every individual in this country/world. I have a responsibility for myself and my kids only. That is all. I respect that people are fearful and so I keep to the rules of distancing and masks (begrudgingly) etc but yeah it’s definitely grinding my gears now. I’m a single mum too so when we’re locked down or restricted to seeing family and friends I really struggle mentally.

I also don’t understand for something with such a low death rate they’ve postponed cancer treatments and other important health issues. Causing unnecessary deaths. And then they expect us to praise the nhs? Please.. 😒

I’ll stop now as I can see my post is turning into a rant 😂

mrshoho · 24/09/2020 10:33

@AlecTrevelyan006

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1308889807725236224.html

Reading the transcript of Whitty/Vallance lecture yesterday. I quote: “so about eight per cent, so 3 million or so people, may have been infected and have antibodies. It means that the vast majority of us are not protected in any way and are susceptible to this disease”.

Now had he said this on the floor of the House, he would have been guilty of misleading the House & made to come back, apologise profusely & set the record straight. But he wasn’t & also didn’t take any questions. I have to tell you that it’s not a matter of opinion. He’s LYING.

We know from the shape of the daily deaths vs time curve in U.K. & elsewhere that there is a force which caused the rapidly expanding pandemic in March to slow down & then to continue spreading at an ever decreasing rate, having already begun to decline before lockdown. This is crucial. As it wasn’t lockdown which terminated the rapid expansion, alternative candidates for that force, which we are certain exists by inspection of the graph, are required. There is ONLY ONE candidate for that force. It is reducing remaining population susceptibility.

As that fell continuously, R was soon below 1 & stayed like that for 16 weeks straight. That our curve is the same shape as that in multiple other countries, including Sweden, ignoring our puny efforts to influence transmission of this respiratory virus, tells us with 100% confidence that a substantial proportion of the U.K. population has already been infected & most have survived. Crucially it’s been demonstrated by at least 4 “Oxbridge quality” labs in several countries around the world, than in all cases, 20-50% of people had T-cell immune recognition of SARS-COV-2 BEFORE the new virus was even identified. Add those newly infected to those already resistant to the virus, and there is the locus of the force bearing down on transmission. There isn’t any serious doubt about it. To antibodies.

The reason I accuse Sir Patrick, in public, of LYING is that I know that he, like me, is well aware of much literature on the extent to which infected people produce antibodies. Only the most seriously ill were certain to produce antibodies at high levels which persisted for some time. But those who were infected & had a milder course of illness, not all produced antibodies & their levels fell away rather speedily.
Those who were infected yet showed few times no symptoms did not go in to produce antibodies. The reasons make sense, too. If you resisted the virus easily, you didn’t need to go through the slow & energetically expensive route of making antibodies, because you had other, perhaps so called “innate immune” mechanisms to protect you. Come along months later & test people for antibodies: of course you’ll find only those people who had a bad time of it. Most of the others didn’t need antibodies & will be negative but they have been infected. Plainly put: the % with antibodies HUGELY underestimated the proportion of the population who are resistant to infection. Don’t believe them when they scare you with their extreme predictions. It’s between implausible & impossible for a resurgence, which I term a #SecondaryRipple , to grow to any great size. It won’t rise anything like as speedily as in spring. It will soon plateau, begin to decline & that will be that.

A test: if the position was not, broadly, as I’ve painted it, you’d expect the most rapid resurgence in dense population centres, like London. That isn’t what’s happening. The reemergence is mostly limited to NW & NE, areas where probably the mixing of people was less complete before our foolish Govt put in place additional restrictions. It was this which prevented us being where Sweden now is. But if we keep our nerve & pay attention to the experienced & pragmatic Prof Carl Heneghan, this will soon be over. It’s completely ludicrous that our appear even to be contemplating more, chaotic & destructive acts. Anyone with influence on their MP, I beg of you: download this tweet string, send it to your MP & tell them I will personally explain this to them: they can decide if they’re being lied to.

They are.
Sue me.

Michael Yeadon

But if this is the case and Whitty/Vallance are lying what are their reasons for doing so? Wouldn't you think if it were that simple our conservative government would have handled it in the least damaging way to the economy? If they truly believe that restrictions are a waste of time and the country would recover faster and without any excess deaths don't you think they would have taken this approach? It does not make sense.
BlueRose18 · 24/09/2020 10:37

Also want to add that we’ve never once had lockdowns for previous outbreaks. Ebola/Influenza/Spanish Flu or even the plague. Most deaths from those were or continue to hit over a million.
As of today the total deaths WITH not OF covid is 982,412. The recoveries 23,698,124! Is that simply not enough to tell you death rate is so low? This is globally!!
Also please bear in mind a lot of deaths are just people that simply had tested positive within a certain amount of time (28 days in U.K.) they haven’t necessarily died of it.
Watch UK Column for some real news and statistics. They interview and get info from legitimate people not just unnamed “scientists” and “experts”.

Cornettoninja · 24/09/2020 10:41

@BlueRose18 quite honestly if you don’t understand by now your either trying really hard not to or you aren’t capable. You don’t have to agree to understand.

Death/infection rates are low because of interventions not despite them. There will come a point that may happen but not yet. It’s a changing situation and requires a degree of flexibility and trust in people who have a wider remit than just themselves.

Bow out of any sort of sense of civic responsibility if you like but understand that there are plenty of people who won’t, and can’t, so easily dismiss their responsibility to you and your family. Your position to do this is off the back of these peoples work.

If we disbanded the government and all public bodies tomorrow how do you think you would fare alone? Society developed because this is the best way to achieve survival (with the side effect of a lot of comforts). There are times this is abused or mismanaged and it’s right to question what is asked of us but I fail to see this terrible needless denial of Liberty at the moment.

serialreturner · 24/09/2020 10:45

@HarrietOh

How do you advise the NHS run as they did pre-COVID when the hospitals are over run?
Totally agree.
TheSeedsOfADream · 24/09/2020 10:45

Is that the UK Column Brexiter conspiracy theory group founded in somebody's front room in Plymouth or a different one?

serialreturner · 24/09/2020 10:45

[quote Cornettoninja]@BlueRose18 quite honestly if you don’t understand by now your either trying really hard not to or you aren’t capable. You don’t have to agree to understand.

Death/infection rates are low because of interventions not despite them. There will come a point that may happen but not yet. It’s a changing situation and requires a degree of flexibility and trust in people who have a wider remit than just themselves.

Bow out of any sort of sense of civic responsibility if you like but understand that there are plenty of people who won’t, and can’t, so easily dismiss their responsibility to you and your family. Your position to do this is off the back of these peoples work.

If we disbanded the government and all public bodies tomorrow how do you think you would fare alone? Society developed because this is the best way to achieve survival (with the side effect of a lot of comforts). There are times this is abused or mismanaged and it’s right to question what is asked of us but I fail to see this terrible needless denial of Liberty at the moment.[/quote]
And agree again.

BlueRose18 · 24/09/2020 10:55

@cornettoninja There have been countries with no lockdown with less deaths than us anyway. So no I’m not convinced. A lockdown has caused a lot more unnecessary deaths in my opinion

TheSeedsOfADream · 24/09/2020 11:00

Oh god. Hold tight peeps. Here comes a ButSweden moment.

madcow88 · 24/09/2020 11:01

STEPHEN GLOVER gives his verdict on the Prime Minister's performance
mol.im/a/8765863

Someone over the age of 65 who agrees with me....

OP posts:
TheSeedsOfADream · 24/09/2020 11:01

Good job it's your opinion and not fact eh? Because the ONS says suicides are at their lowest level since 2001 this year
For example.

TheSeedsOfADream · 24/09/2020 11:04

My mother in law agrees with you as well OP.
Actually, she's 88.
that you Antonia?

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