It's just an overreaction.

[madcow88]

Now don't get me wrong I followed the rules to the letter and still am doing as I don't want to break the law.

However I think it's all a massive overreaction and I don't want to sit by and allow my children's generation to be destroyed.

Their education is totally fucked, they will not get to have the same social experiences as we did as young people.

Why is everyone happily sitting by and allowing our government to restrict our lives over a virus that kills 0.01% of people. Whilst 1000s of people are dying every day due to the lack of treatment and social interactions.

I really just do not feel comfortable with all the laws on our freedom being changed so dramatically over a virus if truth be told is not as deadly as they would like us to be believed.

Don't get me wrong I have sympathy for those people who lost their lives and for the people who will lose their lives in the future but no more than for the people who die of flu and other viruses each year.

@alreadytaken

Fair point but Sweden isn’t an economic isolationist either. It’s economy is export heavy. If Sweden’s trading partners get burned, so does Sweden

I don’t know if I’m looking at history through rose-tinted lenses but I would argue that society as a whole doesn’t have the same outlook anymore (there’s a better word for that that’s escaping me at the moment). I believe that it’s much rarer for people to behave in a way that benefits a wider community if there’s not an immediate reward for them individually.

Politics of personality have been incredibly divisive over the last forty years and the advent of the internet and ability to seek out others to affirm world views no matter if they’re rooted in any sort of reality has resulted in the loss of ability to see the bigger picture and how each individual fits into that. IMHO, of course.

Timescales for disasters like this have completely unrealistic expectations of ability to mitigate and the timescales involved. We live life at a much faster pace and aren’t used to the endurance. I’m not better than anyone else at this and it’s wearing but there is no way to make this any quicker or easier. Any path will hurt.

We’ve just been fed a diet of 90 minute disaster movies where the hero turns it around in time to ensure only the bad guy suffers and the rest of us are saved. Getting used to things happening in real time is traumatic.

That tangent was in reply @MummyPop00’s last post btw!

@MummyPop00 You mean you can recognise Sweden is not the uk when it suits you, not when it doesnt

Societies that act collectively have also been the ones that have "done well", or more accurately suffered less economic damage, than the ones where everyone puts self interest first.

The nhs was never ever overwhelmed!

The reason being we had lockdown.

OP, without the lockdown half a million people would have died in a matter of weeks and many more would have required hospital treatment. The virus would have spread very quickly in a short space of time. The services would have collapsed, including the police and social services. No ambulance to call, no hospital, no police, it would have been chaos. Many people dying alone and without assistance. Is this what you would have prefered? Seriously

@alreadytaken

There’s plenty of dissent in some of those countries you’re talking about. Will dissent increase further the longer this goes on? Watch this space.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53959552

And we know what type of people they are "Vice Chancellor Olaf Scholz said: "Nazi symbols as well as Reichsbürger and Imperial German flags have no place in the German Bundestag."" Such lovely compnay you keep.

But the point is, quite simply - they were not in charge and would have trashed their economy if they had been in charge. In a pandemic those who pull together have less economic damage.

‘But the point is, quite simply - they were not in charge and would have trashed their economy if they had been in charge.’

Well yes, in the shorter term.

But if you haven’t already twigged, the longer drawn out approach won’t be impervious to economic damage either because we do not have a population that is compliant enough or a system good enough for the likes of Track & Trace to work how it potentially could.

Obviously it makes a difference what sources you seek out, but I’ve been drawn to conversations that show an interesting juxtaposition between countries where there are sizeable sections who believe their government are either doing too much or they’re nor doing enough.

The Brazilian perspective that Bolsonaro is taking the dismissive ‘short, sharp, shock’ option to weaken the country and open opportunities for a dictatorship, the USA perspective that Trump is doing something similar. Both countries experiencing concerning undertones of real instability and widespread distrust (justifiably I feel). Compare that to countries where it’s felt that restrictions have gone to far and practically demanding looser policy.

Covid has become very political, it was always going to. I’m still not sure which is the best policy and there won’t be any real answer until long after this pandemic has died down but I’m leaning towards retaining the possibility of things improving will have better results than allowing the populace to reach a point they where they completely disconnect from the leadership they have. I don’t believe we have a situation in the UK that would lead to harsh enforcement of civil order but I do believe we will be seeing scenes demonstrating that in some countries where people have felt abandoned to their fate.

Shamelessly stolen from the stats thread but this graph illustrates (so far at least) that the economic health of a country depends on control of the disease. And of course the economy is what provides us with all the freedoms and comforts that we’re missing right now.

@Cornettoninja

Shamelessly stolen from the stats thread but this graph illustrates (so far at least) that the economic health of a country depends on control of the disease. And of course the economy is what provides us with all the freedoms and comforts that we’re missing right now.

UK and Spain, what a disaster

If only if only if only we'd locked down faster, kept testing, stopped Cheltenham, there are so many things to regret.

I do wonder if as a larger country we’ll reevaluate what industries our economy relies on. The stats thread has progressed the discussion in the direction of what economies are based on and how easy it is for them to continue in the face of restrictions.

Saying that even the Romans described us as a nation of shopkeepers - I don’t know if we’ll be able to move away from a services economy in any meaningful way. Even if we did there are too many types of disaster that could befall us to plan for.. just musing really.

Shamelessly stolen from the stats thread but this graph illustrates (so far at least) that the economic health of a country depends on control of the disease. And of course the economy is what provides us with all the freedoms and comforts that we’re missing right now.

So interesting.

We have been trying these rules for 6 months. It does not seem to have achieved much in terms of saving lives

What do you base this on?

The Government needs to publish information about the rate of false positives and negatives for Pillar 2 (Community) PCR testing - and also stop calling positive test results "cases".

Those results are not "cases".

This is a screening test, not a diagnostic test.

There are some estimates that up to 90% of positive test results are "false positives".

If so, then not only are the current restrictions unjustified but many people are being put in danger, ie. when restrictions are lifted they will incorrectly assume that they have "had Covid" and are immune from infection.

This Petition could have been worded better but the Government knows very well what information it could and should publish:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/4042381-Government-Publish-false-positive-and-negative-Covid-19-test-data-for-Pillar-2?

It is ludicrous and irresponsible that the Government is withholding this information - please sign and share!