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It's just an overreaction.

890 replies

madcow88 · 19/09/2020 10:56

Now don't get me wrong I followed the rules to the letter and still am doing as I don't want to break the law.

However I think it's all a massive overreaction and I don't want to sit by and allow my children's generation to be destroyed.

Their education is totally fucked, they will not get to have the same social experiences as we did as young people.

Why is everyone happily sitting by and allowing our government to restrict our lives over a virus that kills 0.01% of people. Whilst 1000s of people are dying every day due to the lack of treatment and social interactions.

I really just do not feel comfortable with all the laws on our freedom being changed so dramatically over a virus if truth be told is not as deadly as they would like us to be believed.

Don't get me wrong I have sympathy for those people who lost their lives and for the people who will lose their lives in the future but no more than for the people who die of flu and other viruses each year.

OP posts:
CherryPavlova · 20/09/2020 09:54

Only about 200 people a year die in fires in U.K. - should we get rid of fire service and save the money?
Which lives are less valuable than drinking at Waterstones?

madcow88 · 20/09/2020 09:56

@MJMG2015

How can you be 'vulnerable' to something you don't believe exists?

The only correct thing in your posts is your user name.

I am vulnerable as I have severe life altering disabilities. Also I did not say the virus didn't exist so please don't be rude.
OP posts:
MummyPop00 · 20/09/2020 10:00

Yes I think disabled people who have significant equity should also be taxed.

The working economy, the most important element of the economy is being stunted for their benefit, so if they are sitting in a large/expensive house, why not take a %?

As I’ve previously said, maybe we should just both hike the rate & simultaneously lower the Inheritance Tax thresholds?

That way the fiscal pain isn’t felt until a person leaves this mortal coil.

gypsywater · 20/09/2020 10:06

So increased tax for disabled people and parents of disabled children. Plus the over 60s and those with underlying health conditions such as cancer, MS, heart failure, HIV etc etc.
How about BAME too? More tax for them?

gypsywater · 20/09/2020 10:08

Obese people too - increased tax rates for them?

TheClaws · 20/09/2020 10:09

@MummyPop00

Yes I think disabled people who have significant equity should also be taxed.

The working economy, the most important element of the economy is being stunted for their benefit, so if they are sitting in a large/expensive house, why not take a %?

As I’ve previously said, maybe we should just both hike the rate & simultaneously lower the Inheritance Tax thresholds?

That way the fiscal pain isn’t felt until a person leaves this mortal coil.

You can't be serious. I don't think you know how things work - particularly a functioning society.

A disabled person already faces significant barriers to live within society. It costs more - are you aware of that? Life is never simple. This sort of of othering doesn't help.

TheSeedsOfADream · 20/09/2020 10:11

Report disablist and ageist posts. Flowers

MummyPop00 · 20/09/2020 10:11

Yes, it becomes convoluted to administer doesn’t it unfortunately, even though as far as I’m concerned, the bill for Covid should be being picked up by those proportionally at risk on a sliding scale.

So, feck it, Inheritance Tax it is!

TheClaws · 20/09/2020 10:13

@MummyPop00

Yes, it becomes convoluted to administer doesn’t it unfortunately, even though as far as I’m concerned, the bill for Covid should be being picked up by those proportionally at risk on a sliding scale.

So, feck it, Inheritance Tax it is!

Aha. You have hairy hands.
gypsywater · 20/09/2020 10:16

Leave the posts up, let everyone see these views for what they are

HoldingTight · 20/09/2020 10:17

@gypsywater

Leave the posts up, let everyone see these views for what they are

Agree.

sunglassesonthetable · 20/09/2020 10:18

Cancer is very expensive to treat. Risk will rise with age. And is it 1 in 3 will be diagnosed with it now?

Are you going to tax those people also?

gypsywater · 20/09/2020 10:21

@sunglassesonthetable

PP has made it very clear that she would be in full support of tax hikes for disabled people, parents of disabled children, people with cancer, people with HIV, people with any autoimmune condition, people with MS, people with indeed any other underlying health condition, anyone who is BAME, people who are obese and anyone over 60.

TheSeedsOfADream · 20/09/2020 10:23

@gypsywater

Leave the posts up, let everyone see these views for what they are
Okey dokey. Smile I'm still waiting to hear what our future chancellor pays in..
MummyPop00 · 20/09/2020 10:26

@sunglassesonthetable

Oh you’re still popping up are you?

Breaking news: I decided as much as I think it correct to bill those more at risk it would be incredibly difficult for HMRC.

So I’ve decided on a rise in rate & lowering of IHT Thresholds instead.

Apart from unconstructive negative sniping, what have you suggested?

Feck all, that’s what Smile

sunglassesonthetable · 20/09/2020 10:31

Feck all, that’s what

Yep still here. 😁

Enjoying the ride tbh. You had me on "tax the virus"

hopsalong · 20/09/2020 10:32

Discussion seems to have ossified very early on in the spring around the idea that there are only two endgames. The problem is that both are terrible!

  1. We let the virus run amok ('run it hot' in that disturbing phrase) and this kills about 0.3% of the uninflected population of the UK, so about 180,000 people +, mostly elderly, very quickly. For almost everyone, this is an unacceptable human cost. But at least by Christmas it would all be over, and the pandemic would more or less have burned out in this country.

  2. We alternate between periods of stricter lockdown and social distancing (mild lockdown) for at least 12 more months, perhaps indefinitely, incurring relatively large numbers of covid deaths (perhaps in the end almost as many as via strategy 1, but over a longer period of time) AND a very large number of other deaths due to a failing and partially closed NHS, rising unemployment, lower standards of living, and lower general public health even among the healthy (missed vaccinations, cervical smears, worse management and diagnosis of chronic but non life-threatening conditions).

Seven months into this, I think we have to concede that modern science hasn't given us a Manhattan Project. With almost infinite resources and the eyes of the entire world on the same problem, I thought it was possible that some kind of paradigm-shifting advance in vaccination discovery might be made, completely altering the speed and maybe even effectiveness with which one could be rolled out. In fact, there's been no great leap forwards. We're going to be waiting a while and even then the vaccine is likely to offer only partial and somewhat temporary immunity. So it won't eradicate covid.

In that case, why aren't we looking carefully at targeted infection of the population? In previous generations we've asked young people to fight in wars with a very high chance of mortality or lifelong morbidity. (As a child I used to visit a home for disabled soldiers, including those blasted to bits in WWI. Long covid looks like a piece of piss compared to that.) We also made it mandatory (conscription). Here I think we could ask for volunteers, where people in the least risky age brackets, after full medical exams (to check for underlying cardiac defects or other problems) would be inoculated in controlled conditions with the smallest amount of covid able to produce active infection and community.

Why would this work? Well, there would be a selfish gain. If you think you're likely to get covid anyway, why not get it as part of a study where you're having everything monitored and would immediately be given the best treatment if you became very ill? Afterwards you would be able to resume something much like your old life with confidence that you weren't about to get it or infect others.

Would anyone volunteer for this with no financial incentive? I would (though in fact have already had covid) because I would prefer to go through 2 weeks of illness than watch my children's future, our careers, and our long-term health being slowly smashed up.

Would it work? Not everyone in the right age range without health problems would have to volunteer, but admittedly most of us would to get to the 50% infected rate now widely seen as achieving herd immunity, e.g. www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-00451-5.

Would it be as big a sacrifice as previous generations have made on behalf of the old, the disabled, and, most of all, our own children? I don't think so.

TheSeedsOfADream · 20/09/2020 10:34

We got ourselves a live one here folks.

Mummy- I see on another one of the threads you've posted on since joining MN 4 days ago, that you've had Covid, but at the same time think it's an "experiment" and that "a vaccination for Covid has never been found". Plus of course your "but Sweden!" approach.

When you had Covid were you able to continue working?

I hope you've made a full recovery.

TheSeedsOfADream · 20/09/2020 10:37

@hopsalong

Discussion seems to have ossified very early on in the spring around the idea that there are only two endgames. The problem is that both are terrible!
  1. We let the virus run amok ('run it hot' in that disturbing phrase) and this kills about 0.3% of the uninflected population of the UK, so about 180,000 people +, mostly elderly, very quickly. For almost everyone, this is an unacceptable human cost. But at least by Christmas it would all be over, and the pandemic would more or less have burned out in this country.

  2. We alternate between periods of stricter lockdown and social distancing (mild lockdown) for at least 12 more months, perhaps indefinitely, incurring relatively large numbers of covid deaths (perhaps in the end almost as many as via strategy 1, but over a longer period of time) AND a very large number of other deaths due to a failing and partially closed NHS, rising unemployment, lower standards of living, and lower general public health even among the healthy (missed vaccinations, cervical smears, worse management and diagnosis of chronic but non life-threatening conditions).

Seven months into this, I think we have to concede that modern science hasn't given us a Manhattan Project. With almost infinite resources and the eyes of the entire world on the same problem, I thought it was possible that some kind of paradigm-shifting advance in vaccination discovery might be made, completely altering the speed and maybe even effectiveness with which one could be rolled out. In fact, there's been no great leap forwards. We're going to be waiting a while and even then the vaccine is likely to offer only partial and somewhat temporary immunity. So it won't eradicate covid.

In that case, why aren't we looking carefully at targeted infection of the population? In previous generations we've asked young people to fight in wars with a very high chance of mortality or lifelong morbidity. (As a child I used to visit a home for disabled soldiers, including those blasted to bits in WWI. Long covid looks like a piece of piss compared to that.) We also made it mandatory (conscription). Here I think we could ask for volunteers, where people in the least risky age brackets, after full medical exams (to check for underlying cardiac defects or other problems) would be inoculated in controlled conditions with the smallest amount of covid able to produce active infection and community.

Why would this work? Well, there would be a selfish gain. If you think you're likely to get covid anyway, why not get it as part of a study where you're having everything monitored and would immediately be given the best treatment if you became very ill? Afterwards you would be able to resume something much like your old life with confidence that you weren't about to get it or infect others.

Would anyone volunteer for this with no financial incentive? I would (though in fact have already had covid) because I would prefer to go through 2 weeks of illness than watch my children's future, our careers, and our long-term health being slowly smashed up.

Would it work? Not everyone in the right age range without health problems would have to volunteer, but admittedly most of us would to get to the 50% infected rate now widely seen as achieving herd immunity, e.g. www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-00451-5.

Would it be as big a sacrifice as previous generations have made on behalf of the old, the disabled, and, most of all, our own children? I don't think so.

Because the first autochthonous Italian victim was a previously healthy 30 year old.

Etc.

MummyPop00 · 20/09/2020 10:38

@hopsalong

I totally agree with you. I wouldn’t worry though too much as we being drip fed herd immunity anyway Wink

TheSeedsOfADream · 20/09/2020 10:38

But that's what you want on the "but Sweden!" threads.
Confused

TheSunIsStillShining · 20/09/2020 10:45

@MummyPop00

Yes I think disabled people who have significant equity should also be taxed.

The working economy, the most important element of the economy is being stunted for their benefit, so if they are sitting in a large/expensive house, why not take a %?

As I’ve previously said, maybe we should just both hike the rate & simultaneously lower the Inheritance Tax thresholds?

That way the fiscal pain isn’t felt until a person leaves this mortal coil.

I'm apologising upfront to everyone else for not being the least lady-like.

@MummyPop00 FUCK YOU! I have a chronic illness (disabled you could say) and I contribute shitloads to the economy through the highest tax bracket + having my own company (company tax,...) + paying for private education (thus not spending taxmoney on my kid's education, but still paying for your kid's education). And because of this I have equity in my company, and I can live as I choose.
I worked extremely hard to get here.

Please let me know how much do you contribute to this county's economy???

You want to tax ME for having a condition that is mostly genetic of origin?

The working economy, the most important element of the economy is being stunted for their benefit
Again, what the actually fuck are you saying?
I'll translate: oh, wait I can't... What the hell is working economy? Why/How is it stunned for the benefit of disabled/elderly people?
Do you mean that all "normal" people work for is to support these groups?* Are you really that thick?
We pay taxes and gov throws the money at friends and family. Billions probably! And yet you would tax someone who has worked their ass off to have a house and leave it to their kids as a farewell gift when dead?

Especially in London this is even more farcical, as house prices do not reflect the actual value of the houses, but the inflated value that many investors would be willing to pay.

MummyPop00 · 20/09/2020 10:47

@TheSeedsOfADream

I find your stalking tendencies a little creepy tbh. Smacks of some really desperate ad hominem.

MummyPop00 · 20/09/2020 10:50

@TheSunIsStillShining

I’ve decided on IHT instead.

What’s your alternative?

Porridgeoat · 20/09/2020 10:52

Although this has effected mental health, opportunities and education I recon it will also Bring about long term positive change for home working and the environment. Hopefully also the NHS.

However the Covid experience is not comparable to living in a war zone or in poverty like millions of children do across the world, resulting in death from starvation for 3 million each year. Yes Covid is awful, yes people will be deeply effected by the deaths of loved ones but we are by all means still extremely previlaged and have vast opportunities (even if they are temporarily restricted)

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