It's just an overreaction.

[madcow88]

Now don't get me wrong I followed the rules to the letter and still am doing as I don't want to break the law.

However I think it's all a massive overreaction and I don't want to sit by and allow my children's generation to be destroyed.

Their education is totally fucked, they will not get to have the same social experiences as we did as young people.

Why is everyone happily sitting by and allowing our government to restrict our lives over a virus that kills 0.01% of people. Whilst 1000s of people are dying every day due to the lack of treatment and social interactions.

I really just do not feel comfortable with all the laws on our freedom being changed so dramatically over a virus if truth be told is not as deadly as they would like us to be believed.

Don't get me wrong I have sympathy for those people who lost their lives and for the people who will lose their lives in the future but no more than for the people who die of flu and other viruses each year.

Well, at least 4 of the posters on that Feb thread are still banging on day in day out that it's not serious and only the elderly are going to die, so I'd say we stand a better chance of curing Covid than curing The Stupid that must be coursing through their veins.

I'd not seen the falling down the stairs is more dangerous than covid angle before though.

@TheSeedsOfADream

You can call people stupid all you like but the fact remains that the vast majority of COVID deaths have occurred in elderly patients- the average age of a COVID victim is above the UK’s current life expectancy.

A major part of the reason our death toll was so bad was the outbreaks in nursing homes- which by their very nature house elderly people.

How many people in 2019 would have seen locking down potentially forever, on and off, as a sensible way to deal with a coronavirus? Can you be honest about that?

There seems to have been a great deal of social engineering of public opinion to create an entirely new Overton window of views around how we deal with a virus, which is by no means unprecedented in terms of number of excess deaths it has caused. We have got to start doing a cost-benefit analysis in terms of the price we are paying as a society for trying to prevent contagion at expense of many other things that actually make life worth holding onto. Having human rights for example. The right to education, right to freedom of assembly, right to do business, right to worship, right to peacefully protest and so on.

I personally know multiple vulnerable people who believe they will suffer nervous breakdowns/ suicidality if forced to lockdown again. Surely this cannot be the right way to treat the desperate?

[quote Ecosse]@RepeatSwan

Long covid doesn’t exist. There are a small number of people who suffer after-effects. But this is the same for every virus- it is nothing new.[/quote]
@Ecosse

Medical authorities across many countries are recognising that the many patient stories of a post viral condition need to be listened to and taken seriously. W.H.0 are recognising it too. The BMJ hosted an online webinar on the diagnosis, management, and prognosis of “long covid. this month. www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3489

Post viral conditions such as ME (many pwme trace back the start of their illness to a virus) can cause life long disability in previously fit and healthy people of all ages. It is vital post CoVid is taken seriously. ME wasn't and has devastated lives. I know as I have had it for 22 years, bedridden last six. Prognosis for ME is better if it is managed well initially, with people given the right support to rest and pace. This sadly rarely happened.

This 27 year old young man in this Guardian article describes living with a post viral CoVid condition now for six months. www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/13/i-was-infected-with-coronavirus-in-march-six-months-on-im-still-unwell?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

It’s early days when it comes to longcovid and I truly hope it will end up being a long lasting but ultimately self limiting condition, but there is no guarantee. Finally the symptoms of longcovid in many that have similarities with ME are not limited to the fatigue that comes from recovering from damaged lungs but neuro symptoms, post exertional symptom exacerbation etc, as happens in ME. Some coming under LongCovid may be just taking a few months to recover from a lung infection with which will cause fatigue and breathlessness, but there is as described a separate group with symptoms beyond that.

Longacovid should not be dismissed and note many were not initially severely affected with the coronavirus. One long CoVid survey of 600 people showed around 62% were ages 30-50 and a further 10% between 20 and 30. More documenting of cases needs to happen to get a fuller picture in the coming months of the demographics of longCovid.

MummyPop00
TableFlowerss Exactly. Are the old going to pay some kind of altruistic windfall tax to pay for all this? They should be doing imo, as a lot of them are sitting on plenty of equity.

I mean, the young haven’t been shat on enough have they? Country in colossal debt, no matter for the oldies, they’ll only be around for another decade or so anyway.

‘Oh but every new generation pays for the generations preceding them yadda yadda’

Well, no generation has decided to completely shut down society for a pandemic before have they?*
You’re so right. It’s so so sad for the younger generation, folk losing they’re jobs left right and centre, kids with MH problems, cancer screenings being cancelled, other medical issues being missed because we aren’t allowed to get to doctors.... the list goes on.*

A tax for suffering a virus? This is one of the more heartless attitudes I've come across on regarding COVID, and that takes some beating. These people would possibly be carrying long-term effects - if they even survive - and you want to dip into their equity, and then have the hide to call it "altruistic". Do you even know what that means?

I suggest that people who don't believe long covid exists come and spend a week with my DP. We used to hike weekly, cycle, play sports daily. He now has a stool next to the kettle to sit down to make a cup of tea. A 15 minute walk can put him in bed for 2 days. This is 5 months in. Your denial doesn't reflect our reality.

The average person dying of Covid-19 loses 10 years of life - Ecosse is, as usual, wrong. Also wrong about the long term effects of the virus - in fact it's best to assume anything Ecosse says is not supported by fact.

Those thinking that young people will benefit if the elderly quietly go away and die have no understanding of our economy and how much the jobs of the young depend on the old. Britain is a service economy and the old consume more services. They are less likely to do their own gardening, house maintenance or decorating and more likely to require personal care - jobs for younger people that would disappear.

Long Covid does exist. But it seems to be getting hyped up in the latest strategy of inducing fear in people to keep them oppressed.

Zoe App suggests 1 in 200 reports symptoms for over 90 days. Hardly the 1 in 3 who get Cancer is it.

@TheClaws

‘A tax for suffering a virus?’

Umm, well yeah. You got any better ideas to pay off this escalating bill for this ‘experiment’ In pandemic control?

Does the Zoe ap also say how many people no longer use the ap because they are too unwell to do so?

At present I dont think anyone knows how many people get long term issues. The lung problems appear to improve with time, heart problems no-one knows.

You cant stop yourself getting cancer by you can reduce your risk. You can also reduce your risk of getting Covid-19.

Umm, well yeah. You got any better ideas to pay off this escalating bill for this ‘experiment’ In pandemic control?

It's a VILE idea.

We have got to start doing a cost-benefit analysis in terms of the price we are paying as a society for trying to prevent contagion at expense of many other things that actually make life worth holding onto

And what are you going to use as your control/comparison? What life would look like had we not flattened the big peak? (possibly peaks?)

‘Does the Zoe ap also say how many people no longer use the ap because they are too unwell to do so?’

Oh come on. Once you are over the acute phase I’m pretty sure people can manage to press a few buttons on a smartphone.

How many people in 2019 would have seen locking down potentially forever, on and off, as a sensible way to deal with a coronavirus? Can you be honest about that?

I have no idea what people in general would have thought, but if you’d asked me in 2019 about taking drastic measures for a coronavirus, I’d have thought “oh like SARS and MERS?” and thought that probably sounded realistic given how scary those were.

‘Potentially forever’ - no. But nobody apart from a few people who’ve overly enjoyed lockdown are arguing it ‘potentially forever’ for this one either.

I personally know multiple vulnerable people who believe they will suffer nervous breakdowns/ suicidality if forced to lockdown again. Surely this cannot be the right way to treat the desperate?

Yes lockdowns are horrendous and should be avoided whenever it’s possible and limited as much as we can. We could have avoided ever having to have the first one if the government had taken the virus more seriously from the start. But still, sometimes - as in March here - we get to a place where the alternative to lockdown is even worse than lockdown would be.

I seriously hope we don’t have a second lockdown, I would find it very very difficult to cope myself. But if the government is too inept to control the virus any other way and growth starts taking off again then the alternative would be an absolute horror show.

Taxing pensioners is a vile idea?

I don’t think it is actually.

Away from the Covid issue, pensioners by and large are doing fine. Most got state pension at 65, triple lock, trade on wartime deprivation of a war they weren't in, and have left a legacy of austerity, educational debt, high housing costs, and national debt that young people will be paying off all their lives.

Not just me spouting these opinions, ask the Institute of Fiscal Studies if you want confirmation on just how cushy those ‘poor’ Pensioners have had it in comparison to the working age population since the financial crisis.

Do people want to press buttons on a smartphone for something that does not benefit them or do they use their energy on things that actually matter - like eating. You have clearly never been seriously ill.

You also dont know how many people stop using the zoe ap.

16% of pensioners are in poverty and 7% in real material deprivation (source Age UK)

We need to drop this idea that because some are wealthy, all must be.

Affluent pensioners, including those whose income has held up well, pay income tax just like everyone else.

Not just me spouting these opinions, ask the Institute of Fiscal Studies if you want confirmation on just how cushy those ‘poor’ Pensioners have had it in comparison to the working age population since the financial crisis.

Is this a sort of hate rant on pensioners then.

So it's an old person's tax?

Not a virus tax? Cos you'd be taxing the parents of that little boy who died and was buried alone. ( And all the other compromised people )

Would you be taxing them if they died?
So my friend who couldn't visit her lovely mum for 8 weeks before she died would be landed with a bill?

Or you'd just tax the ones who made it through the virus?

Actually I don't believe there are many young people in this country who have such a fascist outlook.

@alreadytaken The people who you are referring to are no longer seriously ill either - otherwise they would still be in hospital wouldn’t they?

Seeing as the death risk from Covid rises proportionally with age, and Baby Boomers & older didn’t have enough children to replace themselves = less of a taxpaying base, and they are the ones who stand to gain most in terms of risk aversion through this forced shutdown of society at the expense of the young, yes I say tax ‘em. Tax some of that 6 trillion in housing equity.

I'd say we stand a better chance of curing Covid than curing The Stupid

Nicely put!

So it's general tax on house owners? @MummyPop00

Or just people who've had the virus?

No, older, equity rich house owners. I’ve clearly not thought out all the finer details, but we’ll start from there & adjust as necessary.