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Original poster

Anyone Changed Their Mind?

115 replies

ClimbDad · 18/09/2020 22:49

As the second wave approaches and hospitals and ICUs start to fill up again, have any of those who spent the summer saying the pandemic was over changed their minds? If so, what caused that change? If not, why do you still believe this is nothing to worry about?

OP posts:
PhilCornwall1 · 19/09/2020 10:27

@walksen

"Some have no idea what it is like to be told there's a good chance you'll die if you catch covid "

Do you have an up to date knowledge of the posters medical history? For all you know they are extremely clinically vulnerable. Maybe you are being hysterical.

Most kids at school have practically zero risk of dying of vivid and there is a low chance for the majority of people. However there are kids staying home as they have written medical advice on how high risk covid is for them.

What makes you think you know better?

Agreed.

I'm in the clinically extremely vulnerable camp and have a pretty good relationship with the specialist team that look after me. I asked them the simple question, "don't dress it up, if I got it, what are the chances of me coming out the other end?", I got the frank reply "you'd probably be a goner if you got it.".

It was no surprise and to be honest, anyone who is in this category would know their chances anyway. Being extremely vulnerable doesn't mean you can't cope with the facts, no matter how unpalatable. You simply then decide what you do knowing the facts.

Kaiserin · 19/09/2020 10:29

Honestly, some people in this very thread still saying "if a second wave comes?" Hmm

Do you think the government is currently planning to shut down the economy again just for the fun of it?
You may or may not agree with lockdown, but denying a second wave at this stage seems rather blinkered...
The only question is whether it can be broken into smaller ripples through targeted intervention, or whether we should just brace for full impact...
And given the test and trace system has collapsed...

SistemaAddict · 19/09/2020 10:31

Every death matters, every long term effect matters. It's not who matters more ffs. I have listened to the doctors advice about my own situation, it's not hysteria. Leaving my 3dc without anyone to care for them isn't something I want to risk because the me, this is about them.

Does anyone have any details as to why treatments have been cancelled? Staffing? Risk of covid to the patient outweighing the benefits of treatment? I'm sorry about your friend.

treebarking · 19/09/2020 10:50

@Bercows

Every death matters, every long term effect matters. It's not who matters more ffs. I have listened to the doctors advice about my own situation, it's not hysteria. Leaving my 3dc without anyone to care for them isn't something I want to risk because the me, this is about them.

Does anyone have any details as to why treatments have been cancelled? Staffing? Risk of covid to the patient outweighing the benefits of treatment? I'm sorry about your friend.

I posted this up thread - it's not jut covid cases but the presence of needing a covid stream through services that creates pressure and cancellations. Ignoring rising cases will effect EVERYONE wanting to access healthcare, not just covid patients.

It's not just the filling up that matters. You only need 1 covid patient to need a covid ward. A ward that would have held 28 non covid patients who can't get admitted with other things. You need to create a red pathway through the hospital which pushes other patients out the system. You have to move services to protect the vulnerable areas (cancer, elderly care) - that mans closing some down to make room. Have a look at the NHS thread - hospitals are seeing an increase in cases and it's having an effect already both covid and non covid. It may only be a small amount but it's in exactly the same way as March.

ChavvySexPond · 19/09/2020 12:59

How have some people STILL not learned how exponential curves work??

Anyone Changed Their Mind?
Quartz2208 · 19/09/2020 14:10

@ChavvySexPond I assume in the same way some people haven't learnt shouting but its exponential growth haven't grasped that real life doesn't follow the same mathematical model.

The issue is that our Government have failed us massively in the track trace and testing - because some areas are massively ahead of that curve and some are behind.

A national lockdown is a terrible idea and shows just how much this Government has failed us.

gypsywater · 19/09/2020 14:25

The NHS barely copes in a normal Winter. If COVID was allowed to spread indescriminantly (which some PPs bizarrely seem in favour of), the NHS would be FUCKED. What if you then need treatment for something yourself and cant get it? Is that OK? You cannot separate the individual from the collective, as much as you may want to.

RepeatSwan · 19/09/2020 14:29

@Strawberrydaiquiris

But I agree. We are very far from a second wave.
We are really not, we are at the start of it.
SummerHouse · 19/09/2020 14:29

I thought it was never going to affect us in the way it did. I thought we were over the worst of it. I think this wave will not be as bad as feared.

I would rather be wrong than live in fear.

anxiousanna75 · 19/09/2020 15:04

I couldn't care less about it anymore. I'm considered high risk, but I'm past caring. Just taking each day as it comes.

Shooglywheel · 19/09/2020 18:01

Just to put things in perspective, here’s the death graph.
Now, this isn’t deaths from COVID, it’s deaths within 28days of a positive test, so it’s grossly overestimated as this includes deaths from everything else, where people have had COVID and recovered.

Anyone Changed Their Mind?
ChavvySexPond · 19/09/2020 18:11

[quote Quartz2208]@ChavvySexPond I assume in the same way some people haven't learnt shouting but its exponential growth haven't grasped that real life doesn't follow the same mathematical model.

The issue is that our Government have failed us massively in the track trace and testing - because some areas are massively ahead of that curve and some are behind.

A national lockdown is a terrible idea and shows just how much this Government has failed us.[/quote]

I'd just read that we are "far from a second wave" when actually we're already in it, but people still can't recognise an exponential curve when numbers are doubling every 8 days. It'll take some people three of four weeks to clock on. Just as it did in the spring.

I don't know why people can't learn, don't learn from mistakes and

ChavvySexPond · 19/09/2020 18:12

We have to learn everything the hard way by making the same mistakes over and over.

Next we'll be sending covid patients into care homes again..!

Quartz2208 · 19/09/2020 18:19

Because it isnt people it is the Government

SheepandCow · 19/09/2020 19:41

@TheGreatWave

Just because they're old doesn't make them disposable.

And neither was my friend because she was not dying of covid. Except she was because it wasn't covid. Why was her life worth less when she was actually dying than a theoretical risk to an 80 year old?

I agree. We need to stop the spread of Covid - so that we can treat other illnesses.

Which of course we very obviously can't do when hospital beds are full of Covid patients, and doctors, nurses, and other hospital staff are off sick.

Our doctors and nurses and other HCP deserve protection. Here's a (very much younger than 80) nurse describing his experiences of being seriously ill with Covid.
news.sky.com/video/it-tried-to-strangle-me-the-nurse-who-battled-covid-19-12060825

So many cases of coronavirus were hospital acquired. Cancer patients and other vulnerable ill people need us to contain the spread of Covid so that they can access treatment.

SheepandCow · 19/09/2020 19:44

@Shooglywheel

Just to put things in perspective, here’s the death graph. Now, this isn’t deaths from COVID, it’s deaths within 28days of a positive test, so it’s grossly overestimated as this includes deaths from everything else, where people have had COVID and recovered.
It excludes Covid deaths that took more than 28 days. We know patients are sometimes spending weeks in hospital.

Separately, it's never been just about deaths. We still don't know enough at this early stage about Long Covid. Until we do, we're all taking a Russian Roulette gamble, risking potential permanent heart, lung, or brain damage.

Quartz2208 · 19/09/2020 20:03

@SheepandCow this whole thing is a russian roulette though all of the options are taking a gamble and risking potential permanent damage in one way or another.

its finding the balance - which at the moment seems to be lacking on both sides

Lazypuppy · 19/09/2020 20:10

Cases may be going up, deaths are still very low...i'm not sure what the panic is about if i'm honest

The gov told us the first lockdown was to protect the NHS, NHS is fine, plenty of capacity and Nightingale hospitals ready to go, so why would we have another lockdown...

SheepandCow · 19/09/2020 20:11

Re balance. Lots of other counties can help us out here @Quartz2208
They've shown there are measures that can be taken to mitigate the damage. If people don't want to follow the as close return to normal as possible model that Australia and NZ took, we could still go for the preventative precautions approach that Germany and Italy are taking, which includes access to tests with quick results.

RepeatSwan · 19/09/2020 20:12

@Lazypuppy

Cases may be going up, deaths are still very low...i'm not sure what the panic is about if i'm honest

The gov told us the first lockdown was to protect the NHS, NHS is fine, plenty of capacity and Nightingale hospitals ready to go, so why would we have another lockdown...

Just an idea, maybe to avoid a further 65,000 deaths?

The deaths weren't high at the outset in Feb either.

SheepandCow · 19/09/2020 20:13

Countries, not counties!

SheepandCow · 19/09/2020 20:15

@RepeatSwan
Some people don't seem to understand what prevention means.

LaurieFairyCake · 19/09/2020 20:17

Yes, its about to go almost the same as before

We'd be utterly idiotic as a species to fail to notice it's the same as 6 months ago Confused

I'm sort of wondering if all those Covid deniers from 6 months ago wised up HmmConfused

If they will wise up again this time as they all fucking disappeared in June Hmm

And if we then get to next March and start a fucking third wave are we STILL going to get people saying 'there won't be a third wave/only 40,000 died the second wave so its bound to be weaker' Hmm

Honestly, it's GOING TO BE LIKE GROUNDHOG DAY until there's a vaccine or we've frankly killed off the vulnerable through our own numptiness

RepeatSwan · 19/09/2020 20:22

[quote SheepandCow]@RepeatSwan
Some people don't seem to understand what prevention means.[/quote]
Worrying thing is one of the anti-preppers is prime minister...

Quartz2208 · 19/09/2020 20:24

I dont think I have ever said that they cant @SheepandCow just that although other countries can help guide each is different (Sweden works for them but not necessarily the same map would work for us)

The problem is though that our GOvernment is so inept, a sector of the public seem to want a full lockdown, a sector wanting life back to normal and a testing structure that makes you test when it is clear you have a cold