Anyone Changed Their Mind?

[ClimbDad]

As the second wave approaches and hospitals and ICUs start to fill up again, have any of those who spent the summer saying the pandemic was over changed their minds? If so, what caused that change? If not, why do you still believe this is nothing to worry about?

Let it spread, let people take their chances and those who are vulnerable or fearful can adapt their lives as they see fit.

If the Government promoted that position, we’d be back to where in March pretty quickly, only worse as the plan would be for unmitigated spread. The impact of this on non-Covid healthcare, the economy and mental health would be devastating.

I don’t think another lockdown would be appropriate, and think we need to accept a certain level of Covid death as “acceptable”, but urging people to carry on regardless would be a terrible policy decision.

codexdivinchi where is the site that tells you the numbers that are in hospital with Covid? I’ve had a look but can’t find it.

There is also Dr Ron Daniels on Twitter who is an ITU consultant in Birmingham. He said that whilst they're seeing more admissions, so far things feel nothing at all like March.

I don’t think anyone is saying things are similar to March at the moment. Isn’t it more that if we didn’t do anything we could be back there some time next month, and it would be beyond stupid to repeat the mistakes of earlier this year and to wait until that point before we responded seriously and therefore avoid the need for another lockdown.

@ClimbDad some will never admit they were wrong. Denial is strong in some. Others like to have as much information as possible to enable them to make informed choices. Some have no idea what it is like to be told there's a good chance you'll die if you catch covid and are having to support another vulnerable family member in staying safe too. Some people are just very selfish and ignorant of what this means for people like me.

I never subscribed to the second wave theory. I see it more as a series of spikes that will continue until we have a vaccine. This is exactly what is happening in China and HK and restrictions are modified accordingly: home working for two weeks, then back to work, etc.
The city in China where I lived had increased testing last week for school children, but back to ‘normal’ now and this up and down will continue.

'Some have no idea what it is like to be told there's a good chance you'll die if you catch covid and are having to support another vulnerable family member in staying safe too. Some people are just very selfish and ignorant of what this means for people like me.'

And some people have no idea of what it is like to have a friend's death of cancer hastened because of the covid restrictions.

And yes that is dead. Not a risk of dying. Dead.

And you call others selfish. This is not all about you.

@ClimbDad by the way this increase in cases has nothing to do with schools. So basically you were wrong.

[quote Bercows]@ClimbDad some will never admit they were wrong. Denial is strong in some. Others like to have as much information as possible to enable them to make informed choices. Some have no idea what it is like to be told there's a good chance you'll die if you catch covid and are having to support another vulnerable family member in staying safe too. Some people are just very selfish and ignorant of what this means for people like me. [/quote]
You are totally wrong when you say you have a good chance of dying from covid. You have not. Get your facts straight before posting hysterical claptrap

@Emeeno1

'Some have no idea what it is like to be told there's a good chance you'll die if you catch covid and are having to support another vulnerable family member in staying safe too. Some people are just very selfish and ignorant of what this means for people like me.'

And some people have no idea of what it is like to have a friend's death of cancer hastened because of the covid restrictions.

And yes that is dead. Not a risk of dying. Dead.

And you call others selfish. This is not all about you.

Yes this.

The overriding attitude that their death doesn't matter because at "least it wasn't covid" is horrible.

Emeeno I am sorry for your loss.

More people are dying daily from flu and pneumonia, mental health is in decline- suicides are up and people have struggled to access cancer care. Our economy is in the floor and the outlook for our children is bleak.
Deaths are being registered as Covid-19 as a result of positive test within 28days of death, regardless of how you die- car accident, suicide, cancer etc, so figures are overestimated.
PCR tests give a percentage of false positives so figures are overestimated.
We can’t take another lockdown.
Sweden weathered the storm with little or no lockdown and now has herd immunity and a recovering economy.
We are just prolonging the agony now,I think.
This has been my opinion throughout.

Oh and for goodness sake’s take a vitamin D supplement. There’s a link between deficiency and COVID susceptibility.

If the second wave comes, so many sanctimonious doom sayers will be popping party poppers and putting up bunting and coming on here to say 'I told you so'.

Everyone knows the situation is shit and will be shit for a long time to come but these people who think they're medical experts, epidemiologists and statisticians and who seem to rejoice and enjoy wearing their masks 24/7 are the worst. People know it's shit, it's as if you like sprinkling that little bit extra shit on top just to make people feel even worse. What is it you gain from this???

"but these people who think they're medical experts, epidemiologists and statisticians "

Most posters I think are listening to what Chris witty etc are saying may happen if we fail to follow social distancing guidelines rules etc.

Then there are people who do think they are experts saying we should ignore this etc because they apparently know better than people who have had careers and years of experience. First it was deaths and hospitalisations are not changing and now they are climbing it's still ok because they are still low.

The NHS scrapes by most years when flu season hits creaking at the seams. How do expect it to cope if hospitalisations keep increasing? Do we honestly think cancer treatments etc improve if we get back to normal and tell the vulnerable to "protect themselves".

We are on a dangerous course and people wearing masks 24/7 are probably not making it worse. Armchair experts doing the opposite are.

@DappledOliveGroves

Whether the pandemic is over or not is irrelevant IMO. The answer to dealing with it is not locking down and living in fear and having our liberty taken away. Echoing Lord Sumption's comments, a virus does not listen to government policy.

Let it spread, let people take their chances and those who are vulnerable or fearful can adapt their lives as they see fit.

Millions of people globally die every year from cancer, obesity, war, famine, natural disasters. The numbers of individuals who die from suicide each year globally is on a similar level to those deaths from Covid. Yet we don't see the same level of hysteria and economies collapsing left, right and centre.

The quicker we get on with life - and accept the fall out in the interim - the quicker we get back to normal. And yes, I have an elderly mother in a care home with dementia and family members with cancer, but still do not support any kind of lockdown. My mother's last few years would be far better served by us being able to see her, take her out and hug her, rather than her never leaving her care home, never again going for a walk or a drink with us, never again seeing her granddaughter. And if, during that time, she caught Covid or any other illness, then so be it. Why are we adamant that we keep the elderly and vulnerable alive far beyond an age that anyone would ever have considered a good innings?

This attitude boils my piss. If we "let it do it's thing" it will overwhelm the NHS and people will die with and without Covid as a result. If you were in your 80s I am sure you wouldn't think you were living beyond your three score years and ten. These are people. Just because they're old doesn't make them disposable. I bet you're a millennial.

@DappledOliveGroves totally agree

@Redolent this is exactly where the government needs to inject extra funding, not pie-in-the-sky Operation Moonshot

Just because they're old doesn't make them disposable.

And neither was my friend because she was not dying of covid. Except she was because it wasn't covid. Why was her life worth less when she was actually dying than a theoretical risk to an 80 year old?

I think @Climbdad you have always misunderstood the otherside.

Its not about whether they will be a second wave of this because of course there was. Once this initial pandemic/crisis is over it wont have disappeared it wont have been eliminated. It will be an endemic virus that we, like it or not, have to learn how to deal with.

Yes we need to buy some time in order to get management of this in place (like we have for most other endemic viruses) treatment and vaccines etc.

But we cant live in fear as you so desperately seem to want to - we can shut down and hide from this, because actually I think you seem to be in denial most of all. That somehow we can lock ourselves away for six months and reappear and it has all gone and we build our lives up from that.

Because we cant. The only way forward is to find a balance. A set of measures that work and are appropriate.

And constantly posting stuff which is designed to instill fear in some who reads it is unpleasant. What exactly are your motives here Climbdad?

How will letting covid spread help people get their cancer treatment more quickly? Genuine question.

"Some have no idea what it is like to be told there's a good chance you'll die if you catch covid "

Do you have an up to date knowledge of the posters medical history? For all you know they are extremely clinically vulnerable. Maybe you are being hysterical.

Most kids at school have practically zero risk of dying of vivid and there is a low chance for the majority of people. However there are kids staying home as they have written medical advice on how high risk covid is for them.

What makes you think you know better?

In response to

" You are totally wrong when you say you have a good chance of dying from covid. You have not. Get your facts straight before posting hysterical claptrap"

@walksen

"but these people who think they're medical experts, epidemiologists and statisticians "

Most posters I think are listening to what Chris witty etc are saying may happen if we fail to follow social distancing guidelines rules etc.

Then there are people who do think they are experts saying we should ignore this etc because they apparently know better than people who have had careers and years of experience. First it was deaths and hospitalisations are not changing and now they are climbing it's still ok because they are still low.

The NHS scrapes by most years when flu season hits creaking at the seams. How do expect it to cope if hospitalisations keep increasing? Do we honestly think cancer treatments etc improve if we get back to normal and tell the vulnerable to "protect themselves".

We are on a dangerous course and people wearing masks 24/7 are probably not making it worse. Armchair experts doing the opposite are.

This is a great post. It will probably invite people to tell you that you are salivating over the idea of a second wave and that you just can't wait for deaths to rise so that you are proved right.

If you were in your 80s I am sure you wouldn't think you were living beyond your three score years and ten

That is exactly what I would think as it goes, so does my elderly dad (83).