Italy and Germany - why are their figures better?

[thereplycamefromanchorage]

Have been trying to find coverage of this in the news - why are Italy and Germany doing so much better than Spain and France in terms of new infections?

Since we now are in an up trajectory with the virus in the UK, why aren't we looking at what they are doing and trying to emulate this?

Johnson, as i said earlier, should be a timeshare salesman or selling 2nd hand cars but he isn't, he is the PM but lacks any intelligence to do the job or realise his limitations and take advice.

Because he is incompetent, he appoints people like Harding, no track record in public health or pandemics, yet she is heading up testing and tracing, no wonder it is a shambles.

But perhaps the biggest tragedy is the UK media, in interviews, they give him and other ministers free rein to lie and treat us with total disdain........ and any TV news program that tries to pin down these people and ask accurate and knowledgeable questions, are swiftly denied any access to Govt ministers....and we all go along with this dictatorship.

Shame on us all.

Yes you get some far right anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists everywhere.

However, Germany has competent government handling of the pandemic, access to tests and quick results, majority of the public understanding and supportive of prevention, and a very good well-funded healthcare system.

@HelenaDove, hello you, lovely to see you. I was on the Worried About threads with you what seems like a million years ago now! Hope you are well.

@TheSeedsOfADream Not too bad thanks apart from im now starting to tackle the lockdown weight. Hope you are ok

looking at Italy today they appear to be going into second wave also! not so great after all

anti vax movement in Italy is not insignificant.

Both Italy and Germany unfortunately have rising cases. As has Belgium, also recently discussed as doing well. Germany suppressed the virus more quickly before with effective contact tracing and good adherence to guidelines.

The last official figures about parents in Italy being against vaccinations showed it was less than 1%. There are no vaxxers everywhere but in Italy it's a microscopic figure. Kids have to have a valid medical reason not to have had all their vaccinations. Or they aren't allowed in school.
If we're talking anti masks and Covid restrictions, well, sure, the number is going to be higher. But it's the law at the moment so they can chunter all they want. My local FB page is a plethora of Covid deniers and people insisting Bill Gates is responsible.
Interestingly most of the posts go to show that the inability to spell going hand in hand with a penchant for conspiracy theories isn't restricted to the English speaking world!

@TheSeedsOfADream - I laughed at "Interestingly most of the posts go to show that the inability to spell going hand in hand with a penchant for conspiracy theories isn't restricted to the English speaking world!"; but limited education is causing real issues. The Italian government have done their best, but there were many anti-vax in Italy.Measles vaccination had dropped to about 80% in Italy, then the government brought in compulsory vaccination for under 2s a few years ago, out of interest does anyone know if they ever caught up the older kids?

Not sure. I'm in a smallish southern town and the jab woman coordinator's sister lives in my building so I've always had the "oi, your daughter's HPV needs doing!"
Got to love Italy sometimes!

I think they must be doing though, it sometimes happens that DD will come home from school and say "oh, X, Y and Z were called into the secretaries office about a jab, why wasn't I called?" So I guess that's part of the catching up.

I think our cases will go up quite a lot within the next two or three weeks in the areas where schools are already back, and maybe in a month where we are.
Though I suppose the kids massing in the evenings will be less frequent with them going back to school and the weather getting cooler.

*God, you’d think people would have learnt by now about the dangers of pontificating about what people are ‘doing’.

They’re probably just a few weeks behind France/Spain/U.K.*

It would be impossible, of course, that other countries might be more on top of this than the UK @TheKeatingFive.

Not worth wondering how we might try to improve things because the UK will always be the best.

Living in Germany I agree people are more compliant and highly unlikely to claim exemption from mask wearing for stupid reasons like wearing glasses! Seriously, I saw "glasses wearing" suggested as a legitimate reason not to wear a mask on a MN thread... If someone isn't wearing a mask here it's so very unusual that you very much assume they have a genuine reason to be exempt. I work with people with disabilities and weve worked very hard with each individual to help them cope with and understand about mask wearing and social distance, to ensure they can continue to go out and about while protecting one another as many have comorbidities which make them high risk. Not all of them can manage but the vast majority can and are now (having been using masks, hand washing more often especially when returning to the house, and social distancing since March) very well adapted.

Maybe tests are assigned more appropriately as you phone your GP, describe your symptoms and get assigned a number to take to the test center. Health and social care employees are randomly tested constantly and there are tests done in all the boarders

The track and trace is good and secondary school children are meant to have their Smartphones with them in silent at school with the track and trace App active (this is not enforced or checked but they all seem to do that - I have two teens at school here).

I live rurally though and Germany is so different state to state that it's almost meaningless generalising about thecwhole country. There we're some jawdroppingly stupid protests with the slogan "we are the second wave" in Berlin

Don't you have to leave contact details in cafes and restaurants in the UK? Why not? How is track and trace working?

Better testing will be helping a lot.
Expect a certain Tory-bot to enter the thread with articles about how Germany is failing at testing also. But these articles only show that one state failed in its ambitious endeavour to test every single returning holiday-maker for free with results within 48 hours. Imagine if the UK had set itself that target!

Here in Switzerland we see a difference in compliance and infection rates between the Swiss Germans,Swiss Italians and Swiss French

That one is easy to answer for me as I know Germany quite well. They have brilliant public services and health services are far ahead of the uk. They actually put money into those things instead of our Tory government who loots these services and sells them off! So dont believe it when they try and blame the public! The government has been robbing public services for decades!

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

Don't you have to leave contact details in cafes and restaurants in the UK? Why not? How is track and trace working?

It isn't working because the government have outsourced it to private companies with no idea how to do it for the government this crisis is just another opportunity to syphon public money into private hands

Of course the government have to outsource to private companies. If the government ran all services, everyone would work for the government!

As a government contractor, I can assure you that many services are better run privately.

Also In Germany, many health services are privately contracted out, including testing. So it can work very successfully.,

Most people forget that GP practices in the uk are privately run and they contract their services to the NHS.

@Baaaahhhhh

Of course the government have to outsource to private companies. If the government ran all services, everyone would work for the government!

As a government contractor, I can assure you that many services are better run privately.

Also In Germany, many health services are privately contracted out, including testing. So it can work very successfully.,

www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opinion/outsourced-and-undermined-the-covid-19-windfall-for-private-providers The BMA has been lobbying against this dogged policy in England of outsourcing for many years but the current level and nature of the contracts being handed to these corporations is becoming increasingly concerning. We are seeing this outsourcing being carried out with minimal oversight, governance or transparency. There is no ability to scrutinise these deals and taxpayer money is haemorrhaging from the treasury while a health and care system in desperate need of investment and resource is ignored. ‘Urgent action is required to protect the NHS and ensure taxpayer money is being spent in a responsible manner. In the long term the health service must be protected and returned to being a genuinely publicly funded, publicly provided and publicly accountable system.

Also In Germany, many health services are privately contracted out, including testing. So it can work very successfully
of course I take your point, I'm not trying to argue that private contracts are inherently bad, rather that our government is just not doing things properly!

For those of you living in Germany, what is the policy on mask wearing in schools? (If it varies between states, what is the policy in your state?)

Germany has an intelligent woman in charge, we voted in an immoral buffoon, a man who in any other world would be selling time shares or running pension scams.

That is far too much of a compliment. This man couldn't even sell a £20 note for a fiver.

Also In Germany, many health services are privately contracted out, including testing. So it can work very successfully
But rather than 5 centrally-run test labs like in the UK, Germany has hundreds and they are controlled at a regional level. This has proven to be more flexible and efficient in this pandemic.

Also the private healthcare in Germany is not remotely like the private healthcare here. Most people in employment will have a 'mutual' fund that they contribute to that covers their healthcare.

For those of you living in Germany, what is the policy on mask wearing in schools? (If it varies between states, what is the policy in your state?)
My son’s at a primary in Baden-Württemberg - they’re expected to wear masks in the corridors and toilets, but not once sat at their desks. I’ve not heard anyone complaining about this - everyone seems happy to comply. And my son and his friends (all 9 or 10) are quite happy to have a mask in their pocket and wear it when they go into a shop/bakery/ice cream cafe.