Italy and Germany - why are their figures better?

[thereplycamefromanchorage]

Have been trying to find coverage of this in the news - why are Italy and Germany doing so much better than Spain and France in terms of new infections?

Since we now are in an up trajectory with the virus in the UK, why aren't we looking at what they are doing and trying to emulate this?

I feel a big reason for our governments reluctance to take this seriously is because doing so would work against what they had planned for the NHS

There is a depressing link between having a cartoon idiot as your leader and your country's Covid pandemic
Not to mention the horror and dismay when it becomes apparent that trump was right ....Boris is Britain's Trump

I'm in Italy. As previous posters have mentioned, most schools here only went back last week so we may well see new cases rising in the coming weeks BUT there is so much more compliance with mask wearing than there seems to be in the UK. Everyone here over the age of 6 wears a mask in indoor public spaces and crowded outdoor spaces and this is rigorously policed. DS started primary school thus week and the only time that they are allowed to remove masks is when they are seated at their own desk, they have to wear them outside in the playground too and are only allowed to play with other members of the same class. A friend's daughter has started at a different school and they are having to wear masks all day (apart from when eating and drinking) as they can't obey the 1 metre rule in the classroom. No one has complained.

In Germany here.
Dh met a friend the other day on the street and just chatted at a good distance. Yesterday he got a call from the friend. He had been in a bar where one patron had recently tested positive. Using the contact details of everyone in the bar that night, his friend was called in for a test. He tested positive.
Then yesterday he calls DH to tell him to go for a test and gives him the number to call. Within a few hours, Dh had left work, made it to the test center, tested by a doctor, and came immediately home. Now we are all sat inside waiting for the results, which we are told will arrive by telephone today.
I'm really impressed how efficient it is.

That's very interesting @CatbearAmo. So in Germany they are moving swiftly to test contacts of known Covid cases even if symptomless, whereas here in the UK people are actively told not to get tested unless they develop symptoms.

I have heard it is a fiasco in the UK with the tests with people driving for miles and being turned away from centers, asking them to return the following day only to have again ran out of tests.

The irony is that you could drive to your local airport, get on a 50 quid Ryanair flight to Germany, be immediately tested on arrival at the airport, stay in a hotel for the night, get your result the following day, and fly home, with a quicker test result.

Obviously not recommending that by all means because its highly irresponsible and is based on getting a negative test result. But hypothetically somebody flying in from the uk would get their test results quicker than someone trying to access a test back home.

Dunno what the rules are for key workers in the uk but our dds nursery staff also volunteer for testing every two weeks without symptoms just to be safe. That is also reassuring because it means they aren't focused on every little snivel the little
snotbags bring in.

On mask wearing I don’t think that explains Italy versus Spain, France or Portugal. I went to Portugal over the summer which had very high mask wearing compliance but still has a surge, France has got very high mask usage. I struggle to think Italy or Germany is doing that bit better than it’s more direct neighbours who are having serious problems.

...could drive to your local airport, get on a 50 quid Ryanair flight to Germany, be immediately tested on arrival at the airport, stay in a hotel for the night, get your result the following day, and fly home, with a quicker test result.

Would that be allowed if the result was positive? What does Germany do with the positive results of arrival people?

Also in Italy and agree with what has been said by other Italian posters. Mask wearing and clearer guidelines made a big difference- it’s more likely that people will follow rules if they are consistent and clear. Plus a really strict lockdown paid dividends and I also think the Italians attitude to health in general has a role to play - Italians are extremely health aware, I have Italian friends who can analyze blood test results with the speed and accuracy of a doctor, and preventative care is very much a part of society here. I have been known to mock my husband and child for what I have previously dismissed as a national tendency towards hypochondria but I feel a lot more confident that the situation is being managed here than I do in regards to my family in England and that we are better prepared for a second wave. Test and trace also seems to be working well for the time being.

We've just had the 41 page protocol for mine and dd's- school (Puglia) to open next Thursday.
Staggered entry and exit
Temperature will be taken on entry (all staff, all kids)
Toilets will be cleaned 3 times during the school day
No moving around the corridor apart from entry and exit
Break in the classroom
Masks to be worn by everyone staff, students, any visitors to the school, anybody accessing the school offices, one of two types of mask only, surgical or one of the ones with a filter
Over the summer months the school has been tinkered with. We already rented rooms in an adjacent ex local authority building, they've now extended that and knocked some walls down to make them bigger.
Will it work? Who knows. There are going to probably be some cases, and times when we have to go online. But I feel at least we are being prioritised and looked after.

At my local supermarket this morning a woman was being refused entry because she didn't have a mask. I sent my DD to the bakery and she had to wait outside because it was one in one out.

I can't even believe this is mad, chaotic, loud, unruly, rule-defying, corrupt Italy I'm talking about Mind you, the 41 page protocol shows we still love our paperwork!

@Bananagio yay, lovely Gio' I was looking for you yesterday, there was a poster looking for info about your neck of the woods.

www.itv.com/news/2020-09-17/speed-versus-accuracy-why-italy-is-offering-30-minute-covid-19-tests-and-the-uk-isnt

This gives a good insight into testing in Italy

The sad reality?

They have governments who know what they are doing,

They don't put a demented unelected adviser in charge or give jobs to 'mates' like Dido Harding when they so obviously don't have the experience and ability required.

They are capable of running a testing, track and trace system.

@TheSeedsOfADream . Am not around much these days apart from as an occasional lurker. Totally agree with your comment re how is this Italy!? This rule obeying, queue forming, space respecting country I find myself living in suddenly!

That's a really interesting piece in Italian testing.

It seems eminently sensible, practical and doable.

@TheSeedsOfADream I have children at 3 different schools. I had to block out a morning to read and act on all of the Covid procedures and requirements! But they all managed to keep it under 25 pages each. I have also seen people turned away from shops if they don't have masks on.

Germany - because it’s population has chosen to invest in public health was far better equipped to deal with a pandemic and then had leaders who did deal with it well. It’s education system also generally has better and bigger classrooms and often smaller sizes. Higher percentage of teachers to pupils.

The U.K. government has mismanaged the epidemic and then in addition we do not have the health or education infrastructure to mirror Germany ( and possibly Italy?). So it isn’t feasible to find huge additional numbers of teachers, even if we could somehow get the buildings. Similarly would our GP services be able to cope with a testing system that was done via GP referral?

Going forwards I do think we have a choice in the U.K. re health care and education and whether we want to invest properly in it. Or not.

@Sidewinder30, @TheSeedsOfADream my DD’s school managed to condense the info into a 4 page email. Perhaps it’s because they’re older (liceo) and there is less parental involvement expected? Anyway, I’m glad I didn’t need to wade through 41 pages of officialese, I would probably have dropped off by page 3.

Loving the astonishment at Italians rule following. It does go to show what can be achieved when people put their mind to it. Let’s hope we stay relatively unscathed over the winter.

@Melassa You got off easy! And yes, here's hoping it stays under control with no need for stricter control measures.

I think that if you give people clear rules which are enforced, then they comply - Italy has been great at this, the UK not so much. Another difference is that new rules are/were announced in the evening and come/came into effect at midnight the same day - not like the UK where things seem to be announced in advance so everyone inevitably rushes to get that family meal/night out with mates/birthday party in before the new restrictions come into force.

I'm interested in the German and Italian media? In the UK we've had lots of articles downplaying Covid, questioning mask wearing, and pushing the message it happens only to Other People aka The Vulnerable. Is it different in Italy and Germany? And is there more mention of Long Covid?

Definitely not downplaying it. The opposite if anything. I've got the evening news on right now and they've covered tests (just over 100,000 today) and how many positives (down on yesterday) They visited a few hot spots and interviewed a scientific expert. A few vox pops about restrictions etc. They've been talking about the second wave for weeks.
Then cut to Trafalgar Square for the tinfoil hatters.

I'm so embarrassed to be British.

As for the latest mass gathering in London, the (maskless) far right anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists. So much for banning groups over six!

Richard E Grant may have nailed it.

twitter.com/RichardEGrant/status/1305894192359641089?s=20

Richard E. Grant
@RichardEGrant
·
Sep 15
Please can someone explain to me why, when you land in Rome, there is a swift and well organised COVID test, with the result given 30 minutes later, yet we don’t have this in the UK?

On protests Berlin has had some too quite vocal. Anti virus measures folks are not uniquely British!