Costello's tweet re Whitty & lockdown Now retracted *edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[mac12]

Anyone heard anymore on this? Apparently amid the testing chaos, we’re now thought to be at 38,000 cases a day & CMO wants a 2 week national lockdown
twitter.com/globalhlthtwit/status/1306351773356118022?s=21

Radio four - confirmed that Chris Whitty has not suggested a second lockdown. I think we have to be careful about how we proceed with spreading rumours, as it will make some/many people panic and worry needlessly.

oz How do you feel about not being able to leave the country? I am not sure that would go down very well in the UK at all, but I can see the benefits as you are able to contain the virus much more easily.
The worry is in theory this problem could go on for decades, at some point the restrictions will have to be lifted as people can only wait so long to go home/visit family/emergencies etc.
Not to mention the aviation and travel industry being utterly decimated. It is interesting how each country is managing the risks and the virus. The fact you can keep some level of normality and the economy afloat has its merits. Decisive action - instigated quickly.

@Livelovebehappy

I will absolutely lose my shit if we are dragged into another lockdown! As I suspect a lot of people will. We were happy to do what it takes at the beginning to get a plan in place to sort this out, but due to wrong decisions and inaction, to have to go back to lockdown is just unthinkable.

We're not going to be (yet). Costello has since tweeted that he was misinformed.

You have to remember we are testing a hell of a lot more people than we were in March. In March you could only get a test if had travelled from China/were bad enough to need medical help. So the true numbers in March were much much higher than the official figures as people who just had a slight cough or a high temp for a day just self isolated and weren’t included in official testing. Now People with any slight symptom are getting tested and also some industries are testing staff as standard (eg care/nhs etc) so those mild cases are now included.
We need to be looking at deaths and icu admissions.

live There was always going to be a second wave, we have known this all along, and there was always going to be a risk of another lockdown. It is not down to inaction or bad decisions, but reopening every service/school and university was always going to create extra cases. It might be better to plan for the worst, and hope for the best?

@LouiseNW the person who tweeted that the CMO said it is Independent Sage

@Repeatswan not everywhere is doubling though - I get the excellent information from Covid Messenger that Little Owl set up. I live on the borders of 2 authorities (London Surrey) and both are fairly stable and at a low level. 1 year group out over both. We dont need to be locked down at the moment.

We havent really tried effective local lockdowns (we are starting to with the North East). We dont need locking down where I am (we were fairly badly hit in March time)

mac12

Costello has just tweeted this, retracting last night’s lockdown claim: twitter.com/globalhlthtwit/status/1306496397529751552?s=21
Adding to general air of WTF is going on? I want to know where the figure of 38,000 daily cases is from. That’s what worries me, is that figure anywhere near the truth because if it is, that’s really bad. I am worried we are flying blind in this & don’t actually know the real infection rate.

Costello has probably just made that up as well, he is hardly credible, just a bitter attention seeker.

Whenever I hear the phrase 'protect the NHS', it always strikes me that it's the wrong way round. We pay for it to protect us.

Clearly it's badly managed and underfunded. I would pay more towards it in tax if asked to, and I would also be open to the idea of some European health schemes where some aspects of healthcare are paid for at a means tested subsidised rate. The principle that the NHS is some sort of untouchable treasure doesn't sit well with me, particularly when some people are expected to lose their livelihoods and homes due to their industries being closed down to protect something that isn't really fit for purpose in the first place.

It is also worth noting we are testing double the amount of people when compared to Germany, France and Spain etc.

It is the sheer weight in numbers. Whether that is due to people taking tests for a sore throat, a huge genuine spike of illness due to all of the reopenings, people taking tests for work purposes etc we are yet to find out, but we are testing huge numbers of people! We still have tests available here, SW.

Government has denied this story and stated that the PM doesn't want a 2nd national lockdown.

@Tomatoesneedtoripen

they should just close the pubs, gym, swimming pools and restaurants!

And extend furlough to pay the millions of people that work in those industries? Or just let them starve?

Quartz2208

@LouiseNW the person who tweeted that the CMO said it is Independent Sage.

Yes, I know. Had misunderstood. Thought Givemeabreakplease meant Chris Whitty was a member of Independent Sage. My bad.

I wonder if now is the right time to get the private sector involved, testing could be rolled out much faster, and they are perhaps obliged by law to report the results to the NHS. The same thing happens with other diseases and illnesses. The time now is to think of much bigger solutions, and I am sure this is already being considered now

@CoronaIsWatching

This guys responsible for this whole situation, he was the one who delayed the original lockdown yet he just loves lecturing us

"This guy" recommended early and strict lockdown. His advice and the advice of other medical experts who supported him was ignored by the government.

As he said at the time - theirs is an advisory body - they have no authority to compel the government to follow their advice.

Aren’t companies like Serco and G4S running the testing centres already, Friendsoftheearth? (centres, not labs)

Which would explain a lot.

Spains deaths are increasing, now 230

@SexTrainGlue

Because he’s part of ‘Independent Sage’, a group which has an anti government agenda

Like a shadow Cabinet? Isnt it a good thing that there's a group of senior scientists who are not under Govt aegis?

Genuine question: What have they been saying that is wrong/mischievous/misleading?

So it turns out it was rumourmongering. So still not wrong/mischievous/misleading at all then? Just the sort of high quality debate and holding to account we need from a group of senior scientists who are not under Govt aegis. Very helpful and constructive.

If we're in lockdown by October, the economy will have disintegrated by March. The number of people dying is almost statistically meaningless in relation to the number of people dying. We have to get on with life.

[quote SweetpeaOrMarigold]@ReuT3 unfortunately you are one of the few. Its unbelievable driving home from work and seeing the complete lack of care by a great percentage of the population

@Batshitbeautycosmeticsltd you don't think it's selfish? To completely flaunt the rules because it's not affected anyone you know, not considering the elderly going out for their weekly shop next to those that have spent the previous weekend with 5000 others in the nearest town centre?[/quote]
And what about the people that work in or own them?...

The man who made the original tweet has now retracted it.

Spains deaths are increasing, now 230

I noticed that too, so four weeks roughly after the infection rate started to increase. Spain had actually got there death rate down to one per day.

Their

38k cases a day seems a bit... far fetched, no?

Chris Whitty could say anything to the government but I don't think there is any chance of a second national lockdown. They fucked up over Cummings and there is no way people are going to stop working especially whilst the testing system is so shit and people risk being holed up for 14 days because the government cannot get its shit together.

Chris Whitty also said that there has to be a limit to easing the measures and that for schools to stay open, pubs would need to close. Nope, that hasn't happened either. The government are now far more worried about the economy. Maybe that'll change if the NHS get overwhelmed again.

Personally, I don't want another lockdown and I cannot imagine DP agreeing not to work again for another x amount of weeks (Self employed). But the rising figures have put me off going back into the office which is meant to be happening mid-October.

So many people missing so many points.

I'm not entirely sure but I would assume Chris W has no actual power to force Boris Johnson to do anything. This is on the PM but also on the stupid and selfish people who haven't followed the rules at all never mind to the best they could.

The PM was right that when he said if he locked down too soon then we'd be potentially out at the worst time but also that people wouldn't tolerate it for long. Well some of those people will have to tolerate people they care about getting ill or dying instead. Then no Christmas dinner with granny might not seem so bad when they can still talk to her on the phone.

@kirinm, I was going to go back to the office soon too, but have had a rethink. I know that some people don’t have a choice, but I do at least for office-related aspects of my job.

Chris Whitty only needs to consider the science, he has the easy job of simply advising teh government how to get the infection down, the real difficulty is balancing the need to keep infection low with the requirement to have a functioning economy and a society that is broadly on board with any plan. It is not a job I would ever consider undertaking, it is an enormous burden of responsibility and stress.