Costello's tweet re Whitty & lockdown Now retracted *edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[mac12]

Anyone heard anymore on this? Apparently amid the testing chaos, we’re now thought to be at 38,000 cases a day & CMO wants a 2 week national lockdown
twitter.com/globalhlthtwit/status/1306351773356118022?s=21

Dominicgoings Australia has done a deal to get the Oxford vaccine and possibly others. We also have universities working on their own vaccines.

born well it was a straight election just a few months ago back in December between Johnson and Corbyn, so it was not that long ago at all! Corbyn might be a ghost to you but he is still rattling around somewhere in Islington the last time I checked, along with Diane Abbots and her mismatched shoes!

Serco make a lot of mistakes, don't they?

You have absolutely no idea how the Labour party - remember, the labour party was never just Corbyn - would have dealt with this. I am more interested in how badly the actual government are doing.

For the record, I didn't bring Corbyn into this. I'm not trying to score political points. I am angry with THIS government. And I'll stay angry at THIS government until they actually demonstrate some competence.

@Friendsoftheearth

born well it was a straight election just a few months ago back in December between Johnson and Corbyn, so it was not that long ago at all! Corbyn might be a ghost to you but he is still rattling around somewhere in Islington the last time I checked, along with Diane Abbots and her mismatched shoes!

This post says a lot about you.

I think it is really very sweet to support Corbyn, and if you feel he would have made a total success of the global pandemic, and come up with all the solutions required to conquer this disease you are entiled to think that. I don't share your enthusiasm (at all) or confidence.

When I think of this situation, I feel relief that Labour did not win, as I can't imagine JC in charge right now, so however badly this gov is doing or not doing, it could always be worse!!

@Friendsoftheearth Good grief. Whatever gets you through the night, I suppose.

@Dominicgoings

Question with regards New Zealand and Australian States who have shut their borders. Have their scientists been involved in vaccine development and research? And if not, will that potentially have an impact on their ability to source a vaccine from other countries? I’m not well versed in the politics of big pharma but I know it’s a complicated market. I have a sense that whilst NZ and some Aus states have ‘done well’ so far, the absolute lack of community exposure is potentially a problem going forward. How long can they stay shut for?

@Dominicgoings

I know South Australia has been developing a vaccine. I think the first phase of trials was deemed successful, but can’t recall hearing anything in the last few weeks about it.

As for staying shut last I heard they had planned to lift the restrictions for citizens and permanent residents to leave mid December. That won’t mean they are opening the borders to other countries. There has been much talk about a travel bubble with NZ, which won’t happen until the state borders reopen. As with all the corona virus updates they change all the time so who knows if this will all happen.

I’m happy at the moment stuck in SA. I can live my life as normal. I do have the same concerns that the country can’t stay shut indefinitely so are we just temporarily stopping the virus taking hold.

@Friendsoftheearth

born well it was a straight election just a few months ago back in December between Johnson and Corbyn, so it was not that long ago at all! Corbyn might be a ghost to you but he is still rattling around somewhere in Islington the last time I checked, along with Diane Abbots and her mismatched shoes!

Spell her name wrong and criticise her - shoes? Dear God.

everything thanks but I usually have a great nights sleep content in the knowledge that the country did not become a communist state - the first in British history, last December.

Retracted? Its totally fucking meaningless though, since most of the country is going to end up in "local lockdowns" of the same severity.

I don't think we need to compare Boris and his cronies to a Labour government that never was that we won't ever know how would have handled things. I think it is more realistic to compare Boris and his cronies to other real-life governments around the world who did manage to supply their health services with PPE and test kits, who are currently managing better testing than us.
You can't compare real actual government with not-real imagined government , you can only compare real with with real.

so they can say 'of course no national lockdown' but the vast majority of the population will be in some form of lockdown, just "local". Like the whole of the fucking North East.

@notangelinajolie

Lockdowns do work but only if they are full on proper lockdowns and people that comply. Lets face it - there are many people in the UK who think lockdown doesn't apply to them so it would never work. Personally, I would be be ok with another lockdown - maybe over Christmas/New Year when most folk are at home. How about 26th December to 23rd Jan.

Comments like this bring it home just how many MNers live in their own bubble of "That would be fine by me, so it would be fine per se." Everyone is at home anyway so it doesn't make a lot of difference really....

Apart from the lonely, the abused, the people living in bedsits or just on their own, those who are miles from family and loved ones etc. They have already given enough.

Christmas is a major time of year for suicides even in normal times.

And Spain is clear proof that hard lockdown don't work.

properly Every country in the world ran out of PPE, every country struggled to contain the virus, it is almost as if you aren't able to look beyond these shores - an inability to see what is happening in the rest of the world. Anyway I don't think the thread should be derailed, but only to say that please just stop with all the political digs, it just lowers the whole tone and content of most threads.

So over 1000 schools with cases uk wide and over 3% of schools has made 0 difference. Lol!
Incubation 1-14d 97% within 11d.
8m children 500k teachers all at mass gatherings.
Foreign travel /eating out and anything without masks.
If nothing else all the school colds have obscured al the covid. All the tests (that were needed) have overwhelmed.
It's pretty clear many have been ignoring the SD or they wouldnt have the colds to pass on to everyone else.
Also a family being exposed to a coughy cold means likely 2-4+ tests vs a lot of workers may only live alone or in couple or previously with kids but they werent then passing it on at school.

Whether they lockdown or not, without tests kids prone to coughs are extremely disadvantaged as are their families and we arent even getting givwn any work.

We need to be careful of the Christmas idea. The government and media are already starting to manipulate us with some notion of 'saving Christmas'. As if Christmas is more important than education.
Seeing family is not dependent on it being Christmas and nor is being health and safe.
They will justify lockdowns by 'saving Christmas', whereas we need to consider whether lockdowns are proportional to the risk and whether they affect all equally.
Personally I love Christmas, as do my DC, but DC are also going A levels and I would prioritise schools staying open so DC can get the education they need before it is too late.
'Saving Christmas' is not the same as 'saving the NHS', but they are starting to use the same tactics and manipulation.
It is a massive retail event that compromises most of the spending of the year. So if they do manage to save Christmas it won't be for our well-being but to make sure everyone keeps spending.

@HesterShaw1

And Spain is clear proof that hard lockdown don't work.

Spain had to hard lockdown as it was so overwhelmed. It did work. If it didn’t people would have been dying in even bigger numbers. So did New York, it had a dramatic surge and had to do a hard lockdown also.

Now, New York is okay.
Madrid is not. It has another huge surge. Why? Not because hard lockdown ‘failed’...

New York has managed not to see another dramatic surge, because they are being more strict and cautious about opening up high risk settings such as restaurants. They also have a very good test and trace system. How long they will hold off for I don’t know but I’d rather be in New York than Madrid.

@Keepdistance

So over 1000 schools with cases uk wide and over 3% of schools has made 0 difference. Lol! Incubation 1-14d 97% within 11d. 8m children 500k teachers all at mass gatherings. Foreign travel /eating out and anything without masks. If nothing else all the school colds have obscured al the covid. All the tests (that were needed) have overwhelmed. It's pretty clear many have been ignoring the SD or they wouldnt have the colds to pass on to everyone else. Also a family being exposed to a coughy cold means likely 2-4+ tests vs a lot of workers may only live alone or in couple or previously with kids but they werent then passing it on at school.

Whether they lockdown or not, without tests kids prone to coughs are extremely disadvantaged as are their families and we arent even getting givwn any work.

I don't think the fact people have colds in indicative of not following social distancing. All of the kids at my childminders had colds. My daughter had her birthday and I saw my mum, son and brother. We all caught the cold - we weren't not complying with social distancing rules. It isn't at all surprising colds are being caught given that everyone HAS been social distancing and avoiding them since March. We will all have lower immune systems than normal precisely because we haven't been exposed to germs as we ordinarily would be.

I agree on the point about being cautious about the christmas idea properly as according to most of the models, our next peak will be in mid December, so how is that going to work with any promises about christmas.

I am guessing they will be rowing back from any idea that christmas can be 'saved' it is not an American movie, and if we keep doubling up on the infection rate, christmas is going to be pretty low key at best this year best case, worst case most of us will be in some kind of semi lockdown.

[quote Namechanger20183110]@WFHpain Like Spain you mean? Fat lot of good their hard lockdown did them. The countries that are faring better at this stage are those that had the loosest lockdowns 6 months ago[/quote]
I live in Spain. The harsh lockdown worked but we opened up too soon and too quickly (especially nightlife) and track and trace wasn't ready. The big rise in cases is now driven by Madrid basically not managing things at all.

Spain opened all nightclubs, parties continued, beaches were crowded and the country welcomed thousands and thousands of tourists from everywhere. Of course it was only a matter of time before covid took off, but what choice did they have? Their economy relies almost entirely on tourism. NY have many other industries to rely on!

@OrangeBlossomsinthesun This is it, isn't it? The testing system needs to work and ours doesn't. As soon as you stop being able to test reliably, infections increase and increase quickly.

Yes in theory, hard lockdown should work. But human nature dictates they won't. You can't treat the whole population as prisoners and not expect some kind of kick back.

Very few in this country would trust anyone in power if they were told "It's only a few weeks and it's for your own good." We've heard that before.

@ProperlyPdOff

We need to be careful of the Christmas idea. The government and media are already starting to manipulate us with some notion of 'saving Christmas'. As if Christmas is more important than education. Seeing family is not dependent on it being Christmas and nor is being health and safe. They will justify lockdowns by 'saving Christmas', whereas we need to consider whether lockdowns are proportional to the risk and whether they affect all equally. Personally I love Christmas, as do my DC, but DC are also going A levels and I would prioritise schools staying open so DC can get the education they need before it is too late. 'Saving Christmas' is not the same as 'saving the NHS', but they are starting to use the same tactics and manipulation. It is a massive retail event that compromises most of the spending of the year. So if they do manage to save Christmas it won't be for our well-being but to make sure everyone keeps spending.

Good points