Should we have a full lockdown briefly now to slow down rises

[Worriedmum999]

Just musing really. Would it be better to have a few weeks of full lockdown now while furlough is still ongoing rather than needing to do one in a month or so as an emergency when 1000 people are dying every day, having to extend furlough etc.

If it’s planned then people can prep for it. Make it a really strict one. Have minimum shops open for emergencies with strict distancing. School well prepared to teach online for 2 weeks.

Might this give us the time to sort the testing backlog and increase them as promised? Give everyone the short sharp shock they need to take distancing/masks seriously again then reopen with clearer rules

@HermioneWeasley

No. The vulnerable can choose to shield and the rest of us need to get on with it

Please can you describe getting on with it? I’ve read this a lot and I’d like to know what advocates of the approach envisage. TIA

This report would agree with you OP

www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2020/09/13/uk-must-act-fast-to-stop-covid-19-cases-growing-exponentially-academic/

“I think that’s the main point is that we must act fast because it’s so much harder to get this sort of thing under control if you delay.

“Even a few days is potentially going to be quite dangerous now at this particular moment.”

Former chief scientific adviser and member of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) Sir Mark Walport has warned that the country is “on the edge of losing control” of Covid-19.

Asked if he thinks Sir Mark is right, Prof Openshaw told Ridge: “Well yes I think that is right.”

No. I don't think the country can survive another lockdown. We could survive 2 weeks, I guess, but I don't think that would achieve anything that wouldn't be lost as soon as it was lifted anyway.

In cold, economic terms, the country can cope with a significant population drop - especially when those dying are statistically more likely to be economically inactive. Obviously we're humans so we don't accept that and we know we need to preserve as many lives as possible. But, when we're at a point where just as many lives are going to be ruined or lost by lockdown as would be saved, we need to look for alternative solutions. I know it sounds very othering and unjust to say that the vulnerable should shield while everyone else continues normal-ish life (with SD, masks etc) but I don't see any other way to keep us all going, really. Vulnerable people would need financial and emotional support to shield of course. And you couldn't make it compulsory. Everyone would have to do their own risk assessment and be supported in their decision.

The vulnerable can choose to shield

Even those who are vulnerable to Covid need to be able to earn money and go to work.

Oh FFS we are nowhere close to the position we were in back in March/April

Even with relaxations of restrictions we are all (well 99.9% of us) having much less contact with others than we would normally (pre-covid) have had, washing our hands & surfaces a LOT more and making some effort not to touch our face as much

We won't get back to a point where 1000s or even 100s are dying daily unless we completely drop all restrictions (i.e. nightclubs back open, gigs, theatres, festivals, conferences, stadiums crammed with people, people hugging, kissing & shaking hands with all and sundry etc etc)

Deaths may go back up a little over winter but they will likely still be lower than deaths from many other causes (cancer, flu, heart disease etc)

On the face of it would seem bizarre due to such low numbers of deaths at the moment.

There have been several reasons suggested as to why this is the case but never seem to mention how vitamin D plays a role. I fear that the numbers will keep on rising and everyone will be saying that’s it’s fine as very low death numbers but then we’re in winter with transmission running rampant and the death rate suddenly skyrockets.

There needs to be more done now to bring the numbers down to avoid another lockdown but I think the government will only react when it’s too late.

But millions of other people need to feed their families if that's OK with you. Another lockdown will do little to stop the spread but will further devastate lives and livliehoods up and down the country

Jesus fucking wept. You don’t think someone aged 51 also has a family to feed.? You don’t think there are thousands of people in their 50s with underlying conditions and young families? You don’t think their lives will be devastated if they lose a parent at a young age? Or do we not matter?

They can't afford another lockdown for Covid. That's just how it is.

'Lets do the maths for the hard of thinking'- you sound lovely OP. You really do.

@Enoughnowstop

But millions of other people need to feed their families if that's OK with you. Another lockdown will do little to stop the spread but will further devastate lives and livliehoods up and down the country

Jesus fucking wept. You don’t think someone aged 51 also has a family to feed.? You don’t think there are thousands of people in their 50s with underlying conditions and young families? You don’t think their lives will be devastated if they lose a parent at a young age? Or do we not matter?

At the end of the day we are all going to prioritise our own family circumstances before others. A full national lockdown the government will need to support everyone, a stronger financial focus on those who actually need to shield must be better than an inadequate help across the board? Let those who aren't vulnerable work and Continue the economy so we can better support those who are vulnerable financially physically and emotionally.
How does locking the majority up help anything really in the long run? How many lockdowns do we need before we accept we need to learn to live with it before our country is on its knees socially and economically?

No way!!!!! How ridiculous

I think maybe during October half term would be a good idea.

No thanks.

I've not rtft
However, while I don't agree with another lockdown ( mainly because I don't think people won't comply)
I don't think we're out of the woods yet.
I work for the NHS in an area which is seeing alarming figures.
To say there aren't many deaths so no way etc is laughable
Watch this space.
I have just finished 4 nightshifts
Every one a lot worse than the one previously. Our trust believe this next surge will be worse

ITU admissions are increasing daily ( by quite a lot considering what it was 2 weeks ago) and it is getting worse.

Our trust believe this next surge will be worse

But lots are wfh, people aren't gathering in clubs or theatres or at football matches, etc, etc, hopefully the situation with care homes is different. We have more treatment options. I just don't see how it can be worse. That's a very pessimistic view. I'm sorry you are seeing more patients though, that's concerning.

@Batshitbeautycosmeticsltd

They can't afford another lockdown for Covid. That's just how it is.

How can we afford not to? We need to, in order to protect the economy. The stakes are now far too high for false economy.

Understandably people don't want to go through lockdown for nothing. No-one wants lockdown. Lockdown is shit. If we must have one (and it looks like we do) it's pointless hardship unless it's an effective one. That means stricter measures and closed borders (essential travel only i.e. freight and emergency, with proper quarantine).

Come off it sheep, you bloody loved lockdown and you are rubbing your thighs at the prospect of it happening again. Just admit it instead of all your faux handwringing.

I think something needs to be done but I'm not sure what. That's vague I know
All day I spend explaining to people that no, you can't wait in the dealership for your car, yes you need to wear a mask and make an appointment, no you can't just pop in and no, the nice garage man can't just "give you a quick lift down the road" and people are getting really mad about it. But stuff like this is to try and keep it covid secure and keep the place safe which in turn helps keep infections down and schools open. It's like everyone has forgotten about covid

I think something has to give to keep schools open because what's going on at the minute isn't working, one school has sent home year 7, year 9 and year 10 in 72hrs
Our local police have given out 4 x 10k fines in 2 days and people are commenting saying "well it's family/they were distancing/it's just a cold/covid isn't real/they're swabbing your brain/don't get tested and the numbers won't go up"

Yes I definitely think something more serious needs to be done, these people are not taking care and not following the rules.

Grow up @TheDragQueen

Yeh I really loved services being shut. Great fun. No, I don't love lockdown, and if I'd been in charge we'd have no need for one now. I would've used our island advantage at the start, like New Zealand and Australia did.

We didn't tackle the problem and so its still here. It won't magically go away.

I recognise when there's a need to do something unpleasant for the sake of less longer-term pain. With the talk of cancer treatments, think of lockdown like chemo. Not something anyone wants to do but necessary to get better.

I'd much prefer to be living like my family in Australia. Their lives are normal. Schools open, offices open, shops, restaurants, bars, theatres, hospitals seeing patients as normal.

I think they'll likely stop households mixing again first....

Whilst I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to do another lockdown nationally, as it's clear local lockdowns aren't working , I'd have to concede there's a lot less appetite amongst the public for this now..... everybody I know is browbeaten and exhausted now

I think October/November time if numbers do spike then there'll be no choice but to do another one. Personally I'd like to see this sooner but think they'll do all possible to avoid it first

No i don't agree. We had a 3 week strict lock down. We have low cases. Absolutely no reason for us to have another one.

Lock down areas with high cases if necessary.
I think closing schools should be a very last resort though.

What happens once this short sharp second lockdown has ended?

A shorter proper lockdown is better than a dragged out sort of lockdown. Life hasn't been properly normal for months and months.
I'd rather get it over with. We'd obviously need to keep the borders tightly restricted for longer than the lockdown but it's a price worth paying. It would allow the economy to start recovering and give us back some semblance of a normal life (temporarily minus international travel).