How can you do this to your children (and yourselves)?

[endoftheworldaoife]

It has been six months and it's now very clear that covid won't be doing away in our lifetimes. A vaccine won't eradicate it (just as a vaccine didn't eradicate flu).

Most of you seem to be willing to accept social distancing and masks for the foreseeable. And I don't get it. We are a tribal species. We literally die without contact and get sick without communication. Kids are learning arrange, stilted ways of being that will just worsen their digital reliance. OCD is being normalised. Dating will be neurotic and masked. Freshers won't make new loves or lifelong friends like we did. As for their working lives...

I wouldn't mind catching covid (indeed I'm sure we all will sooner or later) so can someone explain to me what on earth is happening in their heads to tip the balance? If it only affected us, I could understand (well, I couldn't but this feels like child abuse on a giant scale).

@MrsGradyOldLady

I agree with everything you've said "end".

I've had my life - been to Uni, had a varied and fulfilling career, been married (and divorced - twice!), watched my children grow up. I'm going to die one day. Everyone is. Already I'm of an age where I'm sadly attending funerals of people my age. But I absolutely do not want or expect the younger generation to live a half life just so that I can cheat death for a few more years. What will I care once I'm dead? It's not like I'll know I'm dead?

And I think this is it forever now too. I don't think there will be an effective vaccine anytime soon. In fact there could well be another more deadly virus around the corner. It's not like this is the first is it?

I would love to be wrong of course. If, in a years time everything is completely back to normal, I will be more than happy to come out and apologise and admit I was wrong and paranoid.

You're omitting the inconvenient truth of mine studies in phase 3 trials. So yes it's likely there will be a vaccine, and fairly soon, but don't let that stand in the way of your oddly desperate fatalism.

It’s not about you! It’s about us.

Stop being goady. Restrictions are not in place for fun times, if that’s what the generations have to do that’s what they have to do. Good thing the older ones didint have the same attitude, we would have lost the wars on the first day!

Saying you'd rather die of Covid than have to wear a mask in shops and only be able to socialise in groups of 6 is bollocks a tad extreme.

Also, I'm baffled by the way the "How can we do this to our society?!" wailers accuse other people of being hysterical about the virus when they are the ones making all the fuss! Most people who agree with the restrictions are just calmly getting on with life and following the guidelines, not being hysterical about the virus.

I agree with you, OP. Social responsibility only seems to apply to Covid. The longer this goes on the worse the situation will be. The younger generation particularly will be suffering the effects for years.

More people are dying from suicide than covid at the moment.

Where are you getting this data from? The last report I saw from the ONS suggested that there wouldn't be a full picture of the suicide rate over lockdown until there had been autopsies for the most recent cases, with an estimate of 5 months for this to be completed.

I do appreciate your concerns about young people, but perhaps your view of how this is impacting them is coloured by your negative predictions about the lack of vaccine and lifelong restrictions.

I honestly find that taking each day as it comes is helping us to find a balance between caution and fear. But my kids aren't in school, which makes it a bit easier for us to retain some degree of 'normality'.

Artesia - if I got covid and died I would consider it part of the way the world works. I think we all need to get real about how much we can demand from others.

😳
Fine. And your kids ? And family?

Sorry I have a vulnerable person at home. And he's not disposable.

Do you have anyone vulnerable OP?

My kids are not abused by the restrictions. They are empowered that they can take part in helping their father.

@lazylinguist

Saying you'd rather die of Covid than have to wear a mask in shops and only be able to socialise in groups of 6 is bollocks a tad extreme.

Also, I'm baffled by the way the "How can we do this to our society?!" wailers accuse other people of being hysterical about the virus when they are the ones making all the fuss! Most people who agree with the restrictions are just calmly getting on with life and following the guidelines, not being hysterical about the virus.

Yes this!

When redundancies start kicking in after the furlough scheme ends the real effects of lockdown will become apparent. I’ve been living with the reality of it for the last six months and it’s been truly awful. I’m a PAYE freelancer (tax and ni paid at source before anyone claims I’m a self employed person who should have paid enough tax) and have not been eligible for a penny since March even though I’ve lost every single contract this year. The government literally don’t care and lots more people are about to find that out. We could lose our home and we are a relatively middle class family who have always earned a decent salary. For those living on the edge already I cannot imagine how awful it’s been when I am one of the luckier ones.

TheMurk

Agreed. The NHS did not become overwhelmed.

Because the whole country was in lockdown.

The OP hasn’t explicitly said what they would do but the tone of their posts suggest they don’t think we should be social distancing, wearing masks or any kind of lockdown.

For some all of this is a shite hand with no other options - many who were already dealing with of shite before COVID happened that this has just added onto the pile, some are just dooming and catastrophizing themselves into shite, and some are getting on with things, even thriving.

Many of the issues people complain of are just showing the problems that were already there, maybe just for other people. Teens were already isolated with few areas to gather, loneliness was already called an epidemic, there were already issues with lack of staff in many areas. Few of the issues are actually new.

We've had epidemics in living memory and written/photographed of pandemics from those farther back that shows this won't be for decades, let alone most people's lifetimes. This is a type of virus that has history of mutating to ever less threatening and less transmittable versions over time.

Where I am, people are only wearing masks where it's required and in shopping areas. Go for a walk away from those areas and very few wear any face coverings. Plenty of smiles and conversations. While my kids can't touch or share food/things in school, they're still making friends and doing pretty much everything else.

How do you fall in love without physical contact?

There is a long history of people developing and maintaining loving relationships through letters. Now we can do that instantaneously with video. I dated my now-spouse for 2 years online before we ever met back in dial-up days pre-OLD sites being mainstream. Met in a writing group. Not typical, but it's not all doom and gloom. There have certainly been bigger barriers to developing relationships for young people. We can either doom and gloom them, or better support them with the options they have available.

At first the hysteria was "omg we're all gonna dieeee!" and now it's "omg we're all being controlled by the illuminati, we're gonna be wearing masks and social distancing until 2348!!!!!"

It's not gonna go on forever. OP you asked why people are fine with masks and distancing, it's because I don't expect it to be for long. Certainly not "many years" as you seem to believe.

A survey ( I know but..) was reported in the last few weeks that s hook age kids anxiety had decreased during lockdown.

I remember the hell of secondary school and can see why!

The OP said
I can't see the point of saving people from death (a tiny number of people) by making life below worth living.

But if we don’t put any of the measures in that the OP so despises, it won’t be tiny number. The NHS would become overwhelmed.

There would be no treatment for anything.

Should read : "School aged kids' anxiety."

So do you suggest we just crack on and ignore it op?

My understanding is that the infection fatality rate is estimated to be somewhere in the region of 0.5-1%, so assuming there were no restrictions in place and the entire population caught it in the next year (unlikely I know, but just go with me here), our annual death rate would increase by 50-100% (normally there are around 600,000 deaths per year in a population of around 67,000,000). Presumably most of these people with Covid would end up in hospital before death. Normally less than half of the people dying in the UK die in hospital ..... Do you think the hospitals could cope? The crematoriums? Even old people’s bodies need disposing of. Not to mention that many teachers, university lecturers, doctors, nurses, etc, are vulnerable.

This is obviously a gross exaggeration, but my point is that, however expendable you think the elderly and vulnerable are, the situation is far more complex and just letting the virus run freely through the population is potentially disastrous for all of us including the young.

The above is just about the logistics of letting the virus run free regardless of the morality of letting elderly and vulnerable people die because you don’t want to wear a mask or your child can’t have have a whole class birthday party this year. I have a DD about to start uni. It’s shit, but she is 19 and things will get better.

@withadivinebeatlesbaseline

Just to clarify the ‘most people are dying are in the final stages of life’. Back in April when we had ITUs full of patients with covid, and the chance of coming off a ventilator was 30% most of these people were in their 50s/60s/70s. Most had ‘underlying health conditions’ which means they took medication regularly. Things like high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, angina which they would live with for decades to come. NOT end of life. It’s only been 6 months and huge advances have been made already. If wearing a mask and not going to big gatherings is the price to avoid going back to the hell we went through in hospital in April then I’ll do it.

So many posts like this that I agree with!

@endoftheworldaoife

You are spouting a LOT of nonsense

A lot of other posters are too.

Do all of you who think we should just go back to how things were pre Covid have any idea of how the children/business/economy would suffer if the virus has unlimited opportunity to spread?

Clearly not!

And all the people saying their lives are back to normal, kids having sleep over etc.

THATS precisely why we are, where we are now, having to make it law, not just guidance, because people won't willingly follow the guidance!

It's not difficult to follow the guidance/law & go beyond it to protect other people & try to avoid it yourself

The NHS struggles every winter. It will not take much to overwhelm it completely, then people will die needlessly

Engage a few brain cells & stop behaving in ways that enable the virus to spread. It's really not a big ask.

That's all very dramatic OP. We need to make some adjustments to our lives in order to keep essential services open. You want your kids at school, the pay off is that you stick to the 6 rule.

Clearly people who are infinitely more qualified than yourself seem to think it's a good idea, and I'll take that over a stranger on the net, thankyouverymuchly!

I dropped my ds off at uni yesterday - there’s already been comings and goings in rooms and flats - I doubt their social and love lives will suffer too much. Unless they all get ill. Which they probably will. When my dd went a few years ago they all suffered horribly with freshers flu!

My dc are living full and happy lives now they are back at school. We have curbed our social activities outside of school - and will be complying with the rule of 6 - but dc are quite happy to spend weekends just the 4 of us after playing and learning with their friends all week. As others have pointed out, children take their cue from the adults around them. If you communicate to them that masks and social distancing are a terrible form of torture and life as we know it is over they will of course take that on board. Conversely, you could show them how to live happily while also helping to protect those around them.

If you really care about children, you need to follow the rules that are intended to control the pandemic, keep schools open and protect vulnerable people (many of whom are loved and cherished by children).

You might find this difficult to believe but I think in some ways the pandemic has been good for my children (not all children accepted)

My dc appreciate school more than they ever have before, and their teachers. A love of all things outside and outdoors, gratitude for what they have. Time with us. A quieter pace of life. Deeper friendships gained through hours and hours of talking over the lockdown, and can now entertain themselves fully. Now the schools are open things are great. They certainly appreciate their lives now.

I don't get the idea that just because they can't hang out in groups of 8-10 plus that they are somehow shortchanged. A group of six is fine, and they are getting plenty of socialisation at school.

I profoundly disagree that they are or should be struggling. Most children are now fine. Ask me again if the schools close, but for now we are fine, and some are all of our friends.

@sunglassesonthetable

Artesia - if I got covid and died I would consider it part of the way the world works. I think we all need to get real about how much we can demand from others.

😳
Fine. And your kids ? And family?

Sorry I have a vulnerable person at home. And he's not disposable.

Do you have anyone vulnerable OP?

My kids are not abused by the restrictions. They are empowered that they can take part in helping their father.

Just because your kids haven't been abused by the restrictions doesnt mean others haven't. Cant you see you're doing the exact same thing as people who dont want the restrictions because its massively negatively affecting them?

Everyone wants best for them. People vulnerable to covid want the restrictions (understandably) because it keeps them safer. People not vulnerable to covid but vulnerable in terms of poverty, mental illness, loneliness (which all kill) don't want restrictions because it keeps them safer.

I think people are forgetting that the NHS didn't get overwhelmed because of lock down and the social distancing measures. Some appear to be oblivious to the situation that many hospitals were in with thousands of NHS staff working night and day on covid wards, with some not seeing their own families and children for weeks even living in hotels to protect others. The virus hasn't gone away and it is frankly dangerous and idiotic to believe we can go back to normality right now. The hospitality sector has opened back up solely for economic purposes, to prevent job loses and most definitely protect the pockets of wealthy city centre landlords. This has given the general public the impression that things must be 'safe' and you only have to see this by people's attitudes towards socialising regardless of the impact that it will have on infection rates. "why can't I see 7 friends but I can go to the pub surrounded by many", well you don't need to because pubs are open for the economy ffs can people not see this. So many simpletons it's embarrassing...... Just see a friend at a time and stop acting like you're a 5 year old

*withadivinebeatlesbaseline
Just to clarify the ‘most people are dying are in the final stages of life’. Back in April when we had ITUs full of patients with covid, and the chance of coming off a ventilator was 30% most of these people were in their 50s/60s/70s. Most had ‘underlying health conditions’ which means they took medication regularly. Things like high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, angina which they would live with for decades to come. NOT end of life.
It’s only been 6 months and huge advances have been made already. If wearing a mask and not going to big gatherings is the price to avoid going back to the hell we went through in hospital in April then I’ll do it.
So many posts like this that I agree with!

*👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

At first the hysteria was "omg we're all gonna dieeee!"

I can't say I can ever recall a poster genuinely saying this.

People worried and debated the death toll and lockdown timing and the worst case scenario quoted was about hAlf a million.

I do remember the anti lockdown brigade claiming that other 'hysterical" people were Saying it or claiming the human race would go extinct etc

Now those same posters are claiming it is 1984 come true and we are a police state soon to need a negative covid test to go anywhere

@PhilCornwall1 and that is your choice. Those that are most vulnerable are entitled to free vaccination on the NHS and that is what we would do.

My response was with regard to us treating it as a normal flu season.