How can you do this to your children (and yourselves)?

[endoftheworldaoife]

It has been six months and it's now very clear that covid won't be doing away in our lifetimes. A vaccine won't eradicate it (just as a vaccine didn't eradicate flu).

Most of you seem to be willing to accept social distancing and masks for the foreseeable. And I don't get it. We are a tribal species. We literally die without contact and get sick without communication. Kids are learning arrange, stilted ways of being that will just worsen their digital reliance. OCD is being normalised. Dating will be neurotic and masked. Freshers won't make new loves or lifelong friends like we did. As for their working lives...

I wouldn't mind catching covid (indeed I'm sure we all will sooner or later) so can someone explain to me what on earth is happening in their heads to tip the balance? If it only affected us, I could understand (well, I couldn't but this feels like child abuse on a giant scale).

@thelegohooverer
Thank you for one of the best posts I've read in a while, a beacon of understated sense amongst all the hyperbole.

I do hope there are plans for winter now we now more and time has moved forward in terms of keeping treatments going as safely as possible, and keeping schools open or providing an equal online school provision for all (optimistic I know); but baffled by some who think that letting it rampage unchecked would not have adverse affects on health and the economy, and not just for the vulnerable.

I do, however, believe that many of the things we are doing are having a disproportionately negative impact on the whole of society compared to the danger posed by the virus.

Whilst omitting to acknowledge any downside from allowing the virus to circulate freely, e.g. the damage to the economy, mental health, physical health.

Totally agree with everything you have said. It's time to get real now and just get on with life.

@Bluelinings

It’s odd that those most against lockdown seem to engage in attitudes and behaviours that are most likely to stick us in another lockdown.

Each to their own I guess.

I respect your choices.

Try doing the same for others. You don’t know their story, health or background.

I am against lockdown in the form it has taken across the world. I understand that some measures needed to be taken to reduce the spread, but just as I predicted way back in March, all lockdown does is delay things, as has been proved by the spikes as countries open back up. What was actually needed was possibly the curve to be flattened, not this new ideal of complete elimination. We need the healthy, least at risk part of the population to actually, well catch it, to build up a level of immunity, that then protects the vulnerable.

Personally I would have had a series of rolling restrictions, with them lightening and tightening back up over time, keeping a steady flow of positive infections at a rate that wouldn't overwhelm the NHS during the summer, while protecting and supporting the most vulnerable (not the half hearted measures that were in place, sending people to care homes from hospital without tests). As it is, we've managed to delay the spread so we're now about to face flu season with barely any of the population having any sort of immunity. And yes I know about long covid, but guess what post-viral syndrome has around for as long as viruses, it's just no-one has really cared before.

So yes I'm against lockdown, but I am also following the rules, to the letter (the actual rules not those anyone has made up), because that's who i am. I can disagree with a rule/law, express my feelings and still disagree

@Firef1y72 well said

@CrunchyNutNC

I do, however, believe that many of the things we are doing are having a disproportionately negative impact on the whole of society compared to the danger posed by the virus.

Whilst omitting to acknowledge any downside from allowing the virus to circulate freely, e.g. the damage to the economy, mental health, physical health.

It appears to me that it is those who wish to prolong/increase existing restrictions are the ones that do not acknowledge the damage to the economy, mental health, physical health caused by our ongoing reaction to the virus

That last bit should say still comply

I'm unsure what many people on here want. Apart from zero-covid, I assume, although any sensible person knows that is unlikely (even with a fast-tracked vaccine). They are blind to other issues, too, like cancer, suicides, mental health, etc. Only covid matters.

I don’t believe those that are agitating for Covid restrictions to be all over and done don’t care about cancer, suicides, mental health etc. It’s a smokescreen.... Letting Covid rip through isn’t going help any of these things - on the contrary. How will cancer treatment be helped by hospitals overwhelmed with Covid patients? What about the mental health of those forced to stay inside while the virus rages uncontrolled outside?

For them, it’s not so much “only Covid matters” but “only my selfish desire to do what the heck I please, and screw the collateral damage, matters”.

I need to proof what I write better:

I'm unsure what many people on here want. Apart from zero-covid, I assume, although any sensible person knows that is unlikely (even with a fast-tracked vaccine). They are blind to other issues, too, like cancer, suicides, mental health, etc. Only covid matters.

I don’t believe those who are agitating for Covid restrictions to be all over and done genuinely care about cancer, suicides, mental health etc. It’s a smokescreen.... Letting Covid rip through isn’t going help any of these things - on the contrary. How will cancer treatment be helped by hospitals overwhelmed with Covid patients? What about the mental health of those forced to stay inside while the virus rages uncontrolled outside?

For them, it’s not so much “only Covid matters” but “only my selfish desire to do what the heck I please, and screw the collateral damage, matters”.

It appears to me that it is those who wish to prolong/increase existing restrictions are the ones that do not acknowledge the damage to the economy, mental health, physical health caused by our ongoing reaction to the virus

Eh? We are living with the effects of the ongoing reaction to the virus, it's very clear the effect it is having. However I am not so naive to suggest that we can simply revert back to normal because we just decide to

How much better would the economy fare if it became the norm to know people who've died from covid, people who don't seem very different to us? Will seeing the mortuary van or ambulance taking people from your street again amid reports of a growing body count make you think 'oh, I'll go and do a bit of recreational shopping today'? Will hearing about a close friend's relative who couldn't receive treatment for a stroke or heart attack because the specialist unit was not receiving patients and they had to be driven a further 90 minutes to another unit, make you think 'oh, I fancy Nando's tonight then maybe the cinema.' No, no normal person in their right mind would respond that way, that's the point- the economy is screwed either way and the current approach is considered least bad.

@CrunchyNutNC

Well put...

Having concern for education, the economy and non-Covid health whilst we were in lockdown was reasonable, and the argument that “the cure is worse than the disease” had some power.

However, to persist with these arguments now is hollow, and is a poorly judged attempt to dress up self-interest as noble altruism.

I've got no trouble admitting it is self interest.

On the "do what you're told or be fined", "what YOU think doesn't matter" and all the various insults about those who refuse to comply with restrictions ... I'm just wondering if this is supposed to apply to all, or only chosen communities?

Are they, for example, views which the writers would be willing to express in areas such as Leicester and the NW cities where observance of the rules has so often been overlooked because of cultural sensibilities - and if not, what method of imposing those rules would folk prefer?

Because we are obviously not as amazing as you are? Did I get it right? What a snooze fest

@endoftheworldaoife I can't see the point of saving people from death

You, as your username suggests, are incredibly negative.

I've got no trouble admitting it is self interest.

That’s good, then I have no trouble in saying that you’re a selfish sociopath.

@catspyjamas123

It’s been six months - most of them pretty comfortable with people sitting at home and maybe baking sourdough bread! My parents and grandparents put up with bombs dropping on their heads - or at least close by - for five years. I think I can manage to wash my hands, wear a mask and stay distant for a bit longer!

What a shortsighted post. The whole nation has been happily sat at home baking for the the 6 months, have they? Unbelievable.

It appears to me that it is those who wish to prolong/increase existing restrictions are the ones that do not acknowledge the damage to the economy, mental health, physical health caused by our ongoing reaction to the virus

Or they understand that it ripping through unchecked is also going to affect those things. If we had a competent government who actually had a workable and sufficient test and track and trace scheme, could be bothered to invest money into making schools and hospitals 'covid safe' so they could continue to function beyond covid, then yes, we would see more of a semblance of normality whilst still considering the risks. As that's not the case we are pretty much backed into a corner, we either make hospitals unsafe for everyone anyway and overwhelmed so people can't access treatment, schools just go back so that those living with a vulnerable family member either miss out, or have the risk weighing on their mind of making them ill, and no one being able to see some of their relatives. As a PP has said, it's unlikely to economy would be booming anyway, there actually isn't that much to be made from people in their 20s getting sloshed at the pub, especially as most will pre drink.

@CrunchyNutNC

It appears to me that it is those who wish to prolong/increase existing restrictions are the ones that do not acknowledge the damage to the economy, mental health, physical health caused by our ongoing reaction to the virus

Eh? We are living with the effects of the ongoing reaction to the virus, it's very clear the effect it is having. However I am not so naive to suggest that we can simply revert back to normal because we just decide to

How much better would the economy fare if it became the norm to know people who've died from covid, people who don't seem very different to us? Will seeing the mortuary van or ambulance taking people from your street again amid reports of a growing body count make you think 'oh, I'll go and do a bit of recreational shopping today'? Will hearing about a close friend's relative who couldn't receive treatment for a stroke or heart attack because the specialist unit was not receiving patients and they had to be driven a further 90 minutes to another unit, make you think 'oh, I fancy Nando's tonight then maybe the cinema.' No, no normal person in their right mind would respond that way, that's the point- the economy is screwed either way and the current approach is considered least bad.

This is definitely true

How many people are going to go out and return to normal life when the pandemic rages round us and you have say a 10% chance of getting it when you go out? Maybe more

How many businesses will stay open even if they were allowed to? Nando’s and the Showcase Cinema are hardly going to choose to open SS normal and be superspreader arenas. Places will close anyway. Events won’t go ahead. People will stop socialising. They will take their kids out of school. It Happened before lockdown and it would happen again if it went out of control

OK, here's a thought, and again, I'm on the fence on all of it, I'm not a tin hat wearer, I'm not a "bill Gates wants to control our minds" and I'm not a Corona denier either. I very much believe it was here and is here allbeit in a more contagious but mostly not as serious way.
However, most countries, developed and developing, have been hit by the virus. It's traveled to all corners. But most countries are reporting in far more depth than we are. Why is it?
Would it not be good to have a tally of people who tested positive whether they were hospitalised or not who have now recovered. Yes before anyone jumps I know we have long covid and hangovers from the illness, I'm currently waiting for the much talked about antibody tests so I can prove I had it before testing was widespread so I can get my lungs looked at.
Also, why do the media keep reporting "deaths in the last 24 hours" when they should and the government/PHE should report these are reported. Very few deaths can be registered and made official within 24 hours. Some of these can be from as far back as June. To report them as in the last 24 hours to the public is morally wrong.
Also, why since figures started rising have we not been able to see current hospital admission rates? This ceased last Wednesday.
Personally, the only view I have which is controversial is this is still here, but it's certainly saving the NHS millions and it's times very well to hide the shambles that brexit will bring like a cluster fuck. If you lock people in homes and threaten with huge fines at a time when people are truly struggling financially across the board, you take away a risk factor of people in the street rioting when they realise that brexit will make covid look like a walk in the park once food and medical shortages happen and investments and money has huge swathes taken off it.

I agree that 20 somethings in the pubs is s fraction of the economy.

The at risk population will stay home. And they have a fair chunk of disposable income. The idea of letting the virus " run its course" and that we'd have a good enough economy and health service is wishful thinking.

@Derbygerbil 🙄

@catspyjamas123 wow. Have you seen the panorama with kids with special needs? I can't imagine they have much time to spend baking sourdough.

[quote Alwaysinpain]**@endoftheworldaoife* I can't see the point of saving people from death*

You, as your username suggests, are incredibly negative. [/quote]
Mm, the words pot and kettle spring to mind 😃