How can you do this to your children (and yourselves)?

[endoftheworldaoife]

It has been six months and it's now very clear that covid won't be doing away in our lifetimes. A vaccine won't eradicate it (just as a vaccine didn't eradicate flu).

Most of you seem to be willing to accept social distancing and masks for the foreseeable. And I don't get it. We are a tribal species. We literally die without contact and get sick without communication. Kids are learning arrange, stilted ways of being that will just worsen their digital reliance. OCD is being normalised. Dating will be neurotic and masked. Freshers won't make new loves or lifelong friends like we did. As for their working lives...

I wouldn't mind catching covid (indeed I'm sure we all will sooner or later) so can someone explain to me what on earth is happening in their heads to tip the balance? If it only affected us, I could understand (well, I couldn't but this feels like child abuse on a giant scale).

Just because you don't like the way things are currently does not mean they 'are ripping the heart out of what it means to be a human'. We'll adapt to a new way of living, just as every single generation before us have. Many of the freedoms and benefits that have been changed for the time being are relatively new to humankind anyway and, indeed, several countries still don't allow them anyway!!

You don't have to accept or like the changes but I think, for the sake of your own mental health, that you would be best trying to find ways to make your situation as easy as possible and make life as fun as possible, it's really not that difficult a task. Losing hope, and trying to encourage others to do the same is not a healthy way to deal with change

Anyone else think that this Covid is a flipping GODSEND to Boris? All this bad news (esp about Brexhit) is easily covered up,.

Want to rewrite the Agreements so that you can, in the future, break International Law? Quick - announce that 'we' can only meet in group of 6 - the fact that most households are 4+ people should generate a few headlines!

Brexhit not going well? Well, how about 'SHOCK!' - There is a new outbreak in Xtown! Lockdown there - that'll be a few headlines deflecting from us!
HORROR - cases are going up! Facebook will be full of posters posting photos of young people in the pubs, caption - 'Selfish Selfish Bastards!' (Never mind that the young dont tend to get sick, and even if they do, don't tend to die, or even bother NHS, but even so...)
SCREAM! - Protect your Granny! Don't go on holiday! And if you do, you need to quarantine, at the drop of a hat even though we said it's safe and you can go, spend money on airline tickets/hotels/resorts we need to bury some news so that you don't find out what we're up to, and start questioning.

Numbers are DOWN. Cases might be up - in the young - but so long as they don't need hospitalisation, or die, this is a Good Thing! You now have young people who've HAD the virus, and got over it, and now are immune (for however long). They are the safest people in the world to hug!

And - whole families have had just one member go down with it. How is this 'incredibly contagious?
They have not debunked any idea that we can catch it off shopping, so whole swathes of the public are washing/disinfecting their shopping for FEAR of getting it, even whilst recognising the minute risk. The FEar is a good thing to them! Keep this going!

They want us screaming and running scared. They are quite happy to drop a bomb in it all - it suits them to have the entire population watching each other, informing on neighbours, Covid marshalls? WtAf? I think they were more surprised that anyone at how whole-heartedly some members of society embraced the new guidelines! Ooo - how can we use this?

If they did't have this, they would need to spread the dirt that they have on file about some random MP, or 'Prince' Andrew would suddenly find himself front and centre again.

That is why they flipflop all the time - keep Covid in the News, so that everything else is sidelined, covered up - even REALLY really important stuff like the GDA. And the International Law.

Next week the Rule of 6 will be revoked or amended to a Rule of 8, or not to include children. You watch. Boris is a Liar, proven over and over again. We are being manipulated.

FFS - we need to start looking a bit deeper.

@IndecisiveMama

Wow, when did we become a world of snowflakes? My grandparents lived in London in the Blitz, my parents were evacuated to the countryside to escape the bombs, my son was born in a cat 5 hurricane and I coped without support in a devastated island and went back to work when he was 4 months old. And, guess what, we all learned from hardship. My 4 kids are going to be Just Fine (and one of them is year 11 so don't worry - we aren't sailing through untouched) because there will be treatments, vaccines and different ways of living. All you MNs who are blithely ignoring the rule of 6, shame on you. Do you want to jeopardise your kids schooling and your jobs for socialising? Make some sacrifices and grow some balls.

Modern society is shit. Completely self absorbed, selfish areseholes. Hardship? Resilience? Community spirit? Protecting the most vulnerable? Nah. Nobody tells our modern snowflakes what to do. Pay their wages and their bills whilst they sat at home and now, when we are trying to get some sort of normality back, they stick two fingers up to those whose loved ones have died, and to those who are suffering long term. COVID hasn’t ripped through the country and caused the ‘worst case scenario’ deaths yet because these selfish arseholes were locked down. That lack of basic humanity from the OP and the like is utterly depressing.

I can't see the point of saving people from death (a tiny number of people)

Didn't a report recently forecast 85000 deaths over the winter (in addition to the current total) if no measures were in place? I don't think that 85000 is a tiny number of people. That kind of opinion (along with it doesn't matter because they're all "in the last days of their lives") must be very hard to hear for those who have lost a loved one.

What do you think the government's thinking is? Why are they taking these steps? Is "child abuse" or wrecking the economy their end goal? If their goal is to try and balance mortality with the effects of a poor economy, why do you think they're getting it so wrong - what data or advice are they ignoring etc?

I politely disagree. My parents are early 70s - they think they have had a good life and would much prefer that decisions are made to support DGC and improve children's lives rather than prolong their own

Iwishiwasyoda This sort of phrase constantly comes up - are people really having these conversations? Anyway, if your parents are in their early 70s, that means they could still have 20 years ahead of them. This "children must come first" narrative - particularly where it involves grandparents sacrificing themselves - I'm finding disturbing.

Absolutely mental and totally against the underlying principle of democracy , the greatest happiness for the greatest number

@cocopops - 69 was over 50 years ago. I think the flu vaccination programme has come on some what since then.

And taking sensible precautions is exactly what we do as a family - the OP is appalled that I should do this and is of the opinion that my children would be better off if my husband died.

It's very depressing to read. Yes, the life isn't as nice as it used to be. But what is the alternative? We have to do the best we can, and support each other. What else can we do in the uncertain times like this?

OCD is being normalised How so?

OCD is a severe mental health condition, not a very real need for increased hygiene.

Also the people dying of covid are mostly elderly and in the final days of their lives

Wow - inaccurate and grossly offensive.

Yes, COVID has high fatality rates among the elderly but those it killed were not already in their death throes / final hours of life.

Older lives matter too

Let the young and white do as they will and the elderly, BAME and those with public facing roles fall by the wayside

Oh brave new world

OP, so great that you don’t know anyone over 50 that you don’t want to see die. Death rates are going down due to better treatment and earlier treatment and lower viral load on initial exposure. Which has come about due to social distancing and masks.
You know “pre existing health conditions” could just be something like high blood pressure or cholesterol, and again so great that you don’t know a single person over 50 not having any of those things. Sorry you lost your parents at a very early age in life.

When people start saying "If I were an old person I would rather die than have children sacrifice for me" (paraphrasing) what I hear is "I would prefer all the old people died than have to restrict the way I live for a short while.

@TheClaws

I politely disagree. My parents are early 70s - they think they have had a good life and would much prefer that decisions are made to support DGC and improve children's lives rather than prolong their own

Iwishiwasyoda This sort of phrase constantly comes up - are people really having these conversations? Anyway, if your parents are in their early 70s, that means they could still have 20 years ahead of them. This "children must come first" narrative - particularly where it involves grandparents sacrificing themselves - I'm finding disturbing.

Yes they are I am only 65 - relatively fit and healthy I would rather die than deprive children of even 6 months of their childhood

@Redruby25

This is all a form of control, by those who run the country. It has also been done, I believe to test us and will definitely be a case of survival of the fittest! They need to reduce the population there is no doubt about that, and this is another way in which it will be done, there will be some of you who will no doubt shout me down, but I stand by what I say, as we are all entitled to an opinion.

This is such a ridiculous viewpoint. There are other ways to reduce the population. Bring in a one/two child policy, accept no immigrants for a while, withdraw lifesaving procedures in hospitals, especially for the elderly, by telling families there’s no chance of survival. Whatever. You can use your imagination. I’m assuming the reason for reducing the population is financial? Or is there another sinister reason? Trying to protect people by bringing in lockdown and social distancing measures whilst wrecking the economy doesn’t seem to be quite working that way. Encouraging people to wear masks for protection when they can’t even be recognised on cctv doesn’t seem to be an act of a controlling government.

In the Guardian today. Do 27 year olds count as having reached the end of their life anyway?

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/13/i-was-infected-with-coronavirus-in-march-six-months-on-im-still-unwell?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1599981428

Lindy, this is the mindset I don't understand. You have had your youth. You've made friends, fallen in love, had kids

Eh? And? Are you suggesting a brief period of lockdown (against the backdrop of a 70 year + lifespan renders children infertile, friendless and incapable of forming a relationship?

Can’t work out whether this post comes from idiocy, cuntiness or sheer joke to vivre Grady fuckery.

@Oakmaiden if you're in a nursing home. 6 months is a long time without family. I'd rather risk it and have 3 months with seeing them, than 6 without. Wouldn't you?

@Oakmaiden

When people start saying "If I were an old person I would rather die than have children sacrifice for me" (paraphrasing) what I hear is "I would prefer all the old people died than have to restrict the way I live for a short while.

I am a not very old person (65)

And I would rather die that have the current restrictions in place for young people and children.

I wonder if we'll ever get to the point of being able to discuss the current pandemic and how to handle it without (either side) resorting to accusing the other of being selfish.

It doesn't help to pass a blanket judgement on anyone's pov as being merely self-serving. Most people are just trying to balance the competing demands of safety and mental wellness for themseleves and their loved ones.

So all the Governments across the world who have put in a lockdown of some kind and then continuing measures to keep covid transmission as low as possible have done this for fun? They're all wrong? I could understand your stance if we were the only country that had pursused this method of managing the virus. But we're not. Not by a long way.

I don't think it's right that your children should feel responsible for keeping their father alive by giving up their freedom

What do you suggest? That we just leave all vulnerable people to it? That their deaths won't matter? Because as a parent of a type 1 diabetic child, I can read the statistics and understand that my child is at a far greater risk than yours. I can also see that age is his most protective factor and make the decision that he is as safe as he can be in school. However, that doesn't mean that as a family we do nothing. My older children recognise that their brother has a value in their lives and that they don't want to lose him - both have spent the summer meeting friends outside only, with masks, and have declined indoor meet ups. I drive them everywhere possible to avoid additional contact on public transport. We have our food and prescriptions delivered - this includes crap food such as sweets that they take with them to school so they don't make a stop in a shop on the way home. Eldest is still doing his weekend job but I drive him there when before he would have gone on the bus. They carry and use sanitizer and masks and we made a decision as a family not to have a holiday with a view to keeping our contacts low.

The suggestion that as family we shouldn't take responsibility for each other is ludicrous. Even more ludicrous is demanding that the majority in society don't take care of the minority. The death of a parent will impact a child or teenager way beyond thinking carefully before going into a crowded bar or restricting their social circle for a few months to people who give a shit about the people around them.

What you are saying, OP, is that people with illness, who are old, who are disabled, don't matter, that their value to our society is unimportant. That they are expendable. People who have disabilities, who are old, who are very over weight, are all people who contribute to or who have contributed to our society. They deserve the same right to life as you. They are also the very people who will be impacted enormously by recession and poverty but in all but a minority of cases, I think would rather live than die.

[quote corythatwas]In the Guardian today. Do 27 year olds count as having reached the end of their life anyway?

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/13/i-was-infected-with-coronavirus-in-march-six-months-on-im-still-unwell?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1599981428[/quote]
But similar happens after glandular fever, flu and other viruses.

We don't close down the country and our economy for them.

This happens, it is sad but it is not the norm

@endoftheworldaoife

You are not alone. There are plenty of people who agree with you.

I certainly do

I hate the rule of 6 and so does my six year old. Yes, I told my son about the rule of 6 so he would understand why we can’t visit grandma after today. He is enjoying himself currently, playing in dm garden. We live in a flat and don’t have the luxury of a garden.

This silly rule of 6 should stop soon, most people won’t have the patience. Two households of any size should be able to meet. Even that was very restrictive as during one point we couldn’t meet up with dsis who is a single parents. She bubbles up with a friend instead, until that friend got long Covid. Luckily my dsis didn’t meet up with her for a whole work week so the friend didn’t pass on covid.

Utter selfish, catastrophising tosh. I bet you look good in a turquoise tracksuit, OP

I am only 65 - relatively fit and healthy
I would rather die than deprive children of even 6 months of their childhood

So presumably you are not one of the many, many grandparents who play a central part of looking after and bringing up their grandchildren?

What if you don't die though? What if you just end up relatively helpless for a year or two (or the rest of your life, we don't really know that). Who is going to be saddled with the extra work of caring for you?