End social distancing now - it’s time to get back to normal

[peasoup8]

Four deaths from coronavirus were recorded on 5th September - and yet the economy is on its knees, businesses are folding and my GP refuses to do face to face appointments because of the supposed risks posed by this “deadly” disease. Whilst I have every sympathy for the families of those who died, there are more people killed on Britain’s roads each day than there are from Covid.

People said there would be a massive spike in cases/deaths after the BLM protests and guess what - that failed to materialise. Central London was packed when I was there last weekend so nobody is taking the virus seriously anyway. AIBU to think it’s time we end this social distancing farce now and get back to normal, before more people lose their jobs and homes and the economy tanks still further?

The ironic and really maddening is that this all could have been prevented if gov was not a bunch of idiots and people were actual grown ups and not idiots.

1. wear a mask. no exception.
2. limit social gathering. yes, schools. there are alternatives to spreading out kids. Many. from additional halls to blended learning models
3. no travel. The majority of this shitshow is because people feel entitled and they "desperately need" a holiday. No they don't. Close the borders
4. mandatory quarantine with assistance (money and guarding). oh, but that would curtail our liberties....

everyone whining about lockdowns, masks pls ask yourself: have you been in crowded places because you chose to? and have you traveled (in or out of the country). If yes to either one then please shut the fuck up. You contributed potentially to this shitstorm.

@MagicMabel exactly

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

I think YABU. Why can't we get back to as normal as possible while taking precautions such as masks, hand hygiene and social distancing ie 2m from other folk in shops etc? Not too much of a hardship.

But we do that already don’t we? Before this lockdown. Work from home if we can, wear masks in public places, social distance etc but it hasn’t worked as the number of cases is high and deaths still increasing. It would work if people used their common sense and stuck to the rules, unfortunately not everyone has common sense though. People are in such a hurry to get back to “normal” they think there’s no need for them to do their bit to get case numbers down and continue to break rules which just makes this drag on even longer.

No masks..definitely no masks.
Horrible m anti social harbinger of germs.
Just be sensible.

Agree with you re GP.
And consultants not even doing zoom appointments until Feb 21?

@TheSunIsStillShining

The ironic and really maddening is that this all could have been prevented if gov was not a bunch of idiots and people were actual grown ups and not idiots.

1. wear a mask. no exception.
2. limit social gathering. yes, schools. there are alternatives to spreading out kids. Many. from additional halls to blended learning models
3. no travel. The majority of this shitshow is because people feel entitled and they "desperately need" a holiday. No they don't. Close the borders
4. mandatory quarantine with assistance (money and guarding). oh, but that would curtail our liberties....

everyone whining about lockdowns, masks pls ask yourself: have you been in crowded places because you chose to? and have you traveled (in or out of the country). If yes to either one then please shut the fuck up. You contributed potentially to this shitstorm.

I think some of your views are quite narrow-minded.

People don't just travel abroad because they "desperately need" a holiday. Sure, some do. Many don't. As a HCP in the NHS, many of my colleagues have close relatives (parents, children, partners) abroad. The reason they want to (and are unable to) travel to a random remote little town in a non-touristy destination is not for a holiday - but for their sanity to visit their loved ones.

Wearing a mask and full PPE is not easy, especially in the summer. Providing care to strangers while your own parents have in turn died due to covid abroad and you despite being a HCP have not only not been able to hold their hand in their last moments but also could not visit afterwards for funerals/last rites.

Or of a different colleague who's had miscarriage after miscarriage yet has no relatives in the country but continues to plod on on the frontline.

My point is there are always people worse-off.

@TheSunIsStillShining

The ironic and really maddening is that this all could have been prevented if gov was not a bunch of idiots and people were actual grown ups and not idiots.

1. wear a mask. no exception.
2. limit social gathering. yes, schools. there are alternatives to spreading out kids. Many. from additional halls to blended learning models
3. no travel. The majority of this shitshow is because people feel entitled and they "desperately need" a holiday. No they don't. Close the borders
4. mandatory quarantine with assistance (money and guarding). oh, but that would curtail our liberties....

everyone whining about lockdowns, masks pls ask yourself: have you been in crowded places because you chose to? and have you traveled (in or out of the country). If yes to either one then please shut the fuck up. You contributed potentially to this shitstorm.

100% spot on. What annoys me the most is that some of the people worried about lack of socialising and impact of staying home etc are the ones that don’t stick to the rules and are making the situation ten times worse than it should be. Is it that hard to stick to the rules for a few weeks and allow case numbers and the R rate to decrease so we can have some normality back in our lives??! People complaining about the impact on mental health, lack of NHS services and loss of employment etc when most of them are directly responsible for the surge in cases which are the reason we have to lockdown in the first place. Not all but some and even if half are not following the rules like they should be then this is a vicious cycle that won’t end that quickly or easily.

@TheSunIsStillShining

everyone whining about lockdowns, masks pls ask yourself: have you been in crowded places because you chose to? and have you traveled (in or out of the country). If yes to either one then please shut the fuck up. You contributed potentially to this shitstorm

No, I haven't been in a crowded place, because I don't go to pubs or clubs anyway, and because theatres, classical music venues and churches have been effectively shut since March. And no, I haven't travelled anywhere, because I work in one of these sectors which has been completely shat upon, and haven't had any income since March either. And no help from the government, either.

So can I now whine about lockdown and masks with impunity, or do I still need to "shut the fuck up"?

I suggest that the people who should stop speaking are those who, from their privileged positions (likely to be WFH/furloughed/on benefits/SAHPs who don't need to earn a living), are sitting in judgement on others who do.

@Siw2020
I honestly wish that there was data on must/need/not needed travel.
I haven't seen my parents in a year, won't see them this xmas. I still stand by the fact that it is a not needed travel to see your parents. I love them and see them 3-4 times a year, but as a grown up I am capable of living with only seeing them weekly on a zoom call. It's not the end of the world.

Here are the Heathrow stats. I don't think there is any justification in the July/August/Sept aggregate numbers. It is quite obvious that the majority was holiday. The second img is travel destination. Please try to defend that 1.4 million people flying around ... Yes, a small % will be really need based, but the rest?

Sorry, but the irony of this is beautiful

I suggest that the people who should stop speaking are those who, from their privileged positions (likely to be WFH/furloughed/on benefits/SAHPs who don't need to earn a living), are sitting in judgement on others who do.

On one hand everyone should have a voice, but if you are X/Y/Z then don't. If you don't struggle than you can't understand ...

Also judgement was (from me at least) not about going out and working but on the irresponsibility of people mingling, socializing without any SD or masks or thought when not actually necessary and going on holidays.
People who claim that their spiritual healer is essential worker and the likes are annoying the hell out of me.

My biggest judgement is about secondary schools though, and that is directed firstly at gov and only very lastly at parents.

Data suggests that cases are falling a bit after half term holiday. It might or might not be causality, but since nothing else changed, it is not a stretch to think that there is causality link between them.

The rest? The rest are probably trying to actually live their lives with some degree of enjoyment, make their own risk assessments and not allowing the government’s fear campaign to lock them inside their homes.
We have been seriously oversold this virus and never in the history of ever have we hidden away from each other and been terrified of what is essentially a standard virus that affects certain people just as pre-existing viruses do too. Every single year our health service is overwhelmed with breathing related illnesses and yet before 2020 people still went on holiday without being told they were selfish murderers.

Anyone who doesn't social distance effectively or wear a mask indoors in public places is a cockwomble, simple as.
I'm too busy looking after people who didnt, who have it, and who are dying, every day, in FFP 3 masks and plastic gowns, sweating my bollocks off to look after people who don't listen and can't follow rules. A bit of cloth now and then is nothing compared to what we have to work in every day - could do with a weekly clap again to hammer the message home.

You know, you’re right. Chris Whitty could be wrong and some random woman in Mumsnet called MagicMabel could have all the answers.

We have experts. They don’t always agree. You can disagree with them if you like, but unless you have actually made a real effort to digest and understand what each one has said, rather than simply read some politicised rant on Facebook, your opinion is uninformed and in the current climate, potentially dangerous. Your questions and open minds, however, are invaluable.

@Opentooffers whilst I admire your profession and am in no doubt that you continue to have a very tough year, I do not think it’s fair to assume that people ill in hospital have broken any rules or didn’t wear a mask. Covid is caused by a microscopic virus which you know better than me cannot be stopped by a bit of fabric and some hand gel, hence why you are in a hospital grade mask and additional ppe.
Additionally I live in france where everyone has worn a mask everywhere for months now, including my DC who have to wear one all day at school and yet 2 weeks ago I managed to catch it.
And on a final note, covid does not cause everyone to end up in hospital. For the unfortunate people who do it’s a great shame but it’s not the norm. Indeed for myself I felt mildly unwell for 3 days total and then recovered completely. It’s important for people to also hear of mild cases in order to provide some ressemblance of information balance.

[quote Lostinacloud]@Opentooffers whilst I admire your profession and am in no doubt that you continue to have a very tough year, I do not think it’s fair to assume that people ill in hospital have broken any rules or didn’t wear a mask. Covid is caused by a microscopic virus which you know better than me cannot be stopped by a bit of fabric and some hand gel, hence why you are in a hospital grade mask and additional ppe.
Additionally I live in france where everyone has worn a mask everywhere for months now, including my DC who have to wear one all day at school and yet 2 weeks ago I managed to catch it.
And on a final note, covid does not cause everyone to end up in hospital. For the unfortunate people who do it’s a great shame but it’s not the norm. Indeed for myself I felt mildly unwell for 3 days total and then recovered completely. It’s important for people to also hear of mild cases in order to provide some ressemblance of information balance.[/quote]
It can’t be stopped by a mask and hand gel but it can be reduced and that reduction would then be evident in hospital admissions and ambulatory care.

Huge number is cases are considered mild but increasingly those sufferers are having repercussions so when we look back, it’ll be at the whole picture from the start of the infection to the end of the symptoms including those post viral. It might well be that not many people have it mildly at all. As I said above, I’m seeing lots of young people with heart problems, having strokes or significant lung damage. Many don’t even think they have had covid but often have antibodies and it’s put down as post viral repercussions.

A question to those who want to open up, stop with the masks and SD etc....

What do you think is going to happen to the number of people who get seriously ill and need hospital care?

If you think that number is just going to stop rising, please explain why.

If you accept it is going to continue rising and that we will run out of hospital beds, please explain your strategy. What do hospitals do with the next patient who comes along when all the beds are full? Because the only thing I can think of is to send them home with a lot of morphine to ease their deaths. I can’t see what else there is to do, if we stop all the measures which are aimed at slowing the spread. We will have more cases than beds.

Figures have increased a but since September op.

@PuzzledObserver ideally the governments in charge over the past few decades would have not failed to invest in the health system to land us in the state we are in now. Population and global travel has boomed in recent years and yet no further infrastructure has been put in place to deal with it.

That aside as there’s nothing to be done about it now, we are where we are, I suggest that all the hospitals with few to no covid in-patients (of which there appear to be a large number) receive patients from areas in high demand. It’s what happens when maternity units are full. To my untrained eye it appears that London and many parts of the south of England already saw their peaks during March and April. Since the north was locked down at the same time as the rest of the country but were yet to experience the same number of cases that the south did in the first wave they are now having what is effectively their first proper wave. I suggest that patients could be spread evenly to cope. It is also worth noting that it’s estimated up to half of quoted covid patients in some hospitals were admitted for reasons other than covid. They either then tested positive asymptotically or caught it while in hospital. Using these figures distorts the picture.
Lastly I think it’s always worth remembering the photos and stories we see every winter where the nhs is overrun in flu season. It’s a disgrace this is the case but it’s not unusual.

@Lostinacloud

It is also worth noting that it’s estimated up to half of quoted covid patients in some hospitals were admitted for reasons other than covid. They either then tested positive asymptotically or caught it while in hospital. Using these figures distorts the picture.

I suggest that the figure which matters most is how much capacity there is available for emergency admissions, whether Covid or something else. Moving cases around the country is possible, and of course there are the Nightingales.

But my basic point remains. If there are no beds left anywhere in the country, what happens to the next patient who needs one?

If there are no beds left anywhere in the country, what happens to the next patient who needs one?

Spot on. What you don’t realise is that it might be you that has a car crash, or your child who’s appendix bursts or something happens to require you needing emergency treatment. It’s not really about covid but about capacity of the NHS including bed numbers and healthy health care professionals at work, able to helpthose that need it.

@peasoup8 how about now?

@Dollface20 can we really be expected to take that seriously when it ends with the false line that flu death are included in the total.
The stats msy be right I have not checked but tge ladt line is a lie.