Surely they can’t keep schools open as normal if cases keep going up like today!

[Worriedmum999]

My daughter went back to school last Thursday. She really needed to go as lockdown played havoc with her mental health. She was fine doing her academic work but she is someone who needs the social side of school.

We are a vulnerable family and, with this shitshower of a government, I had no faith that cases wouldn’t rise and I wouldn’t be forced to take her out of school again. But I cannot believe that she has been back 2 days and the jump in cases has been so huge. I honestly expected us to be able to get to half term. Of course deaths are going to rise now. Why wouldn’t we follow the pattern of the other European countries. Add to that the fact that people can’t get tested now and we’re fucked. And I’m so fucking angry and upset about the damage that this is doing.

What are the government going to do? Surely it will be impossible to expect parents to keep sending their children to schools when the death toll is huge again and the ICUs are full.

@phlebasconsidered

As usual the usual types pop up to say it's "only" the vulnerable who get it badly.

Point 1 ) there are plenty of teachers who are vulnerable (myself included) who are at work and at risk.
Point 2) there are plenty of teachers (myself included) and children who live with clinically extremely vulnerable people or other children.
Point 3) despite being vulnerable, these people nonetheless contribute to society and have worth. Them becoming ill just so every child can be in school so you can work isn't really moral. If we opened schools safely this could be negated.
Point 4) Bubbles are an utter crock of shit. My bubble is 3 classes large. Then they all bus home together. I'm also exposed (and therefore my class are by proxy) to two massive yeargroup bubbles of my children. I may as well have been at a fucking rave all Summer, instead of isolating to keep my live in senile mum safe.
Point 5) 3 teenagers from my child's secondary have been left with permanent heart damage from covid. They were fit footballers before. My nephew, 7 years old, has been left with hypertension. He's 7! Young people might not be dying but they are being seriously affected. Should we not act to prevent that?
Point 6) symptoms in children are wide ranging. I've had kids in my class today with head colds and one headache- congestion is listed by the WHO and John Hopkins as a sympton. Along with the new ones constantly coming out - vomiting, diarrhoea, headache, stomach pain, rash. None of which is on our "sending home" list.
Point 7) kids can't socially distance. They try, but they can't. Even if they wanted to the kids in my class can't. They're crammed two to a desk in a small room. Even though they all have their own equipment, i'm still having to handle 96 books a day and hand them back. I am not allowed ppe. I am talking all day. The kids in the front row breathe me in all day, and vice versa. By the end of the day the air in my room is child breath soup. My window being open the 2cm it can be just wafts it about a bit. If I have it, they'll get it and take it home. If they have it, I will.

Is it worth opening the way we are? Can we not do a better job? We must do better.

Hear hear 👏🏼

I’m for any help that doesn’t involve part time school.

I kind of wish we’d done a thread at the beginning going for this rather than six months of parent v teacher! (For the most part not everyone).

I’m for any help that doesn’t involve part time school.

Me too

@MarshaBradyo

I’m for any help that doesn’t involve part time school.

I kind of wish we’d done a thread at the beginning going for this rather than six months of parent v teacher! (For the most part not everyone).

Most teachers on here would say they were parents first then teachers. We can be both!!!

@noblegiraffe

No Trust they don’t. You really don’t actually read what anyone else is saying do you?

Yes, but nobody has suggested anything which is actually an effective safety measure and doesn't include part time schooling (no, home learning doesn't count)

Masks for all secondary pupils in classrooms.

Windows that open more than one inch.

Adequate hand washing facilities and sanitiser that doesn't run out within a week.

Here's three...

Monkey I know but we could have had a really good thread with a list of changes then all agreed to campaign on it. Way back when.

But we got caught up, I know I post more on it when I’m irritated - certain phrases prompt me.

But anyway on the bright side it probably wouldn’t have achieved much ;

They involve a full education delivered in a different way.

Why not look at what the majority of the world is managing to do?

@monkeytennis97

Masks for all secondary pupils in classrooms.

Windows that open more than one inch.

Adequate hand washing facilities and sanitiser that doesn't run out within a week.

Here's three...

I don't personally believe masks for secondary kids in classrooms is going to make anything safer tbh. How many teenagers wear a mask properly?

Yes to sanitiser.

Windows? I mean are they going to be open all winter? I suspect there will be more kids with hypothermia than covid if that's the case!

Great if windows are opened but not always possible

They involve a full education delivered in a different way.

I don’t find these kind of semantics helpful. Are they in school full time or not.

Marsha there have been millions of threads.

Part-time schooling is actually a late addition to the debate on MN. For a long time the focus has been funding for cleaning, extra hand washing facilities, bigger spaces and of course PPE.

But every single thread on the topic had teachers shouted down by the usual suspects claiming that teachers were ‘blocking the reopening of schools’ and ‘want them to stay closed’.

You know this.

Well I think they are three perfectly good suggestions which, unlike the government, follow the science.

@monkeytennis97

Well I think they are three perfectly good suggestions which, unlike the government, follow the science.

Teenagers in masks follow the science??

Masks only work if you use them correctly.

@TrustTheGeneGenie you are underestimating teenagers re the masks. I know thousands of them.

Well I think they are three perfectly good suggestions which, unlike the government, follow the science.

They sound good to me, yes.

Main issue being building work to sort windows I guess. Which isn’t unsurmountable.

@TrustTheGeneGenie my suggestions follow the science

So you think enough teachers will die or be off longer than two weeks that we won't have enough teachers and schools will close? Yeah. Seems really likely.

People do have really short memories.

In the week before schools were officially closed, in March, a very large number of schools were already partially closed due to staff shortages.

That period was short because we moved to full lockdown.

Had lockdown not come in, we would have had very few schools able to open properly anyway, due to lack of even vaguely qualified adults to do crowd control in front of each class.

There just aren't lots of 'spare teachers' waiting around to stand in front of classes just to keep schools open.

I am in a bubble of over 30, very closely linked to two other bubbles of the same size. A couple of cases within those 90+, and we're all at home. then i come back in BUT my DD, who is in a big bubble at sixth form, gets it and I have to stay at home as her close contact. Then my DH, who is in an even huger bubble as part of a sixth form (3000 all told), gets sent home with symptoms and I have to isolate again. then DS's uni closes due to a spike in cases, of which he is one, and I again have another two weeks.

So all without me being ill once, I end up at home for at least 8 weeks. Avery one of my colleagues could write a similar set of links through which they could easily be in self isolation for long periods.

[quote monkeytennis97]@TrustTheGeneGenie you are underestimating teenagers re the masks. I know thousands of them.[/quote]
No I don't think I am. You know thousands of teenagers well enough to know that they'll not touch their face, they'll wear a clean mask every time they remove it and put it back on? You know that they'll dispose of them correctly? Nah. You couldn't possibly know that.

@noblegiraffe

Marsha there have been millions of threads.

Part-time schooling is actually a late addition to the debate on MN. For a long time the focus has been funding for cleaning, extra hand washing facilities, bigger spaces and of course PPE.

But every single thread on the topic had teachers shouted down by the usual suspects claiming that teachers were ‘blocking the reopening of schools’ and ‘want them to stay closed’.

You know this.

Noble honestly I’ve been shot down on extra spaces (no staff forget about it), cleaning (it’s airborne you sausage! Me not you paraphrasing) hand washing (ditto!) and PPE - actually last one I’m pro and lobbied for this but not convinced on longevity wearing all day for students.

Basically I’ve been pro loads of stuff but have lost track of where I got worn down

I still think that a lot of the rebuttles were people getting annoyed - you just want childcare etc

But it doesn’t matter now we can’t rerun.

The most positive thing as I’m a half glass full type person is we are closer irl in getting on and appreciation than on here

@cantkeepawayforever

So you think enough teachers will die or be off longer than two weeks that we won't have enough teachers and schools will close? Yeah. Seems really likely.

People do have really short memories.

In the week before schools were officially closed, in March, a very large number of schools were already partially closed due to staff shortages.

That period was short because we moved to full lockdown.

Had lockdown not come in, we would have had very few schools able to open properly anyway, due to lack of even vaguely qualified adults to do crowd control in front of each class.

There just aren't lots of 'spare teachers' waiting around to stand in front of classes just to keep schools open.

I am in a bubble of over 30, very closely linked to two other bubbles of the same size. A couple of cases within those 90+, and we're all at home. then i come back in BUT my DD, who is in a big bubble at sixth form, gets it and I have to stay at home as her close contact. Then my DH, who is in an even huger bubble as part of a sixth form (3000 all told), gets sent home with symptoms and I have to isolate again. then DS's uni closes due to a spike in cases, of which he is one, and I again have another two weeks.

So all without me being ill once, I end up at home for at least 8 weeks. Avery one of my colleagues could write a similar set of links through which they could easily be in self isolation for long periods.

There were so many people off but we don't know if they were off with covid do we?

Yes teachers may have to self isolate. I don't think anyones denied that

Trust, I don't think that the studies on masks are confined only to those who wear them 'perfectly', though, are they?

Obviously 'perfectly worn' masks work better. But my understanding is that current studies suggest that mass mask wearing, even if imperfect (because within that mask study, it is unfeasible that every single person wore them perfectly), is of benefit.

You know thousands of teenagers well enough to know that they'll not touch their face, they'll wear a clean mask every time they remove it and put it back on? You know that they'll dispose of them correctly? Nah. You couldn't possibly know that.

This is exactly the kind of situation where we shouldn’t let perfection be the enemy of good.

Sure, some will fuck around with them. But the cumulative effect of many people wearing masks (however properly) seems to be high. It is not seen as a big deal in other countries for this age group.

@cantkeepawayforever

Trust, I don't think that the studies on masks are confined only to those who wear them 'perfectly', though, are they?

Obviously 'perfectly worn' masks work better. But my understanding is that current studies suggest that mass mask wearing, even if imperfect (because within that mask study, it is unfeasible that every single person wore them perfectly), is of benefit.

I think there's evidence to suggest incorrect mask wearing can spread it. I mean if you've got covid and you're touching your mask every two minutes or you throw it in your bag you're gonna spread it aren't you?