Surely they can’t keep schools open as normal if cases keep going up like today!

[Worriedmum999]

My daughter went back to school last Thursday. She really needed to go as lockdown played havoc with her mental health. She was fine doing her academic work but she is someone who needs the social side of school.

We are a vulnerable family and, with this shitshower of a government, I had no faith that cases wouldn’t rise and I wouldn’t be forced to take her out of school again. But I cannot believe that she has been back 2 days and the jump in cases has been so huge. I honestly expected us to be able to get to half term. Of course deaths are going to rise now. Why wouldn’t we follow the pattern of the other European countries. Add to that the fact that people can’t get tested now and we’re fucked. And I’m so fucking angry and upset about the damage that this is doing.

What are the government going to do? Surely it will be impossible to expect parents to keep sending their children to schools when the death toll is huge again and the ICUs are full.

As usual the usual types pop up to say it's "only" the vulnerable who get it badly.

Point 1 ) there are plenty of teachers who are vulnerable (myself included) who are at work and at risk.
Point 2) there are plenty of teachers (myself included) and children who live with clinically extremely vulnerable people or other children.
Point 3) despite being vulnerable, these people nonetheless contribute to society and have worth. Them becoming ill just so every child can be in school so you can work isn't really moral. If we opened schools safely this could be negated.
Point 4) Bubbles are an utter crock of shit. My bubble is 3 classes large. Then they all bus home together. I'm also exposed (and therefore my class are by proxy) to two massive yeargroup bubbles of my children. I may as well have been at a fucking rave all Summer, instead of isolating to keep my live in senile mum safe.
Point 5) 3 teenagers from my child's secondary have been left with permanent heart damage from covid. They were fit footballers before. My nephew, 7 years old, has been left with hypertension. He's 7! Young people might not be dying but they are being seriously affected. Should we not act to prevent that?
Point 6) symptoms in children are wide ranging. I've had kids in my class today with head colds and one headache- congestion is listed by the WHO and John Hopkins as a sympton. Along with the new ones constantly coming out - vomiting, diarrhoea, headache, stomach pain, rash. None of which is on our "sending home" list.
Point 7) kids can't socially distance. They try, but they can't. Even if they wanted to the kids in my class can't. They're crammed two to a desk in a small room. Even though they all have their own equipment, i'm still having to handle 96 books a day and hand them back. I am not allowed ppe. I am talking all day. The kids in the front row breathe me in all day, and vice versa. By the end of the day the air in my room is child breath soup. My window being open the 2cm it can be just wafts it about a bit. If I have it, they'll get it and take it home. If they have it, I will.

Is it worth opening the way we are? Can we not do a better job? We must do better.

First full day at work today in school with the kids from 2 to 18 ,,never have I seen so many happy smily faces.Its been an amazing day! I have loved every second..it feels like we are living again instead of existing...roll on tomorrow!

" They should switch to social distancing in schools - for safety and to minimise disruption"

If you took any business and said you can only use the same building, have the same number of people present, and must complete the same tasks in the same time to the same standard how do we ever think that SD is possible to maintain in any meaningful way?

As cases rise there will be more pupils and staff absent , year groups self isolating as tests are more difficult to secure, increasing community infection feeds through to school even ignoring the possibility of transmission in school which having seen how things work after being back over a week will happen ( especially in hotspots)

@Sallycinammonbangsthedruminthe

First full day at work today in school with the kids from 2 to 18 ,,never have I seen so many happy smily faces.Its been an amazing day! I have loved every second..it feels like we are living again instead of existing...roll on tomorrow!

Yep loads of happy dc on way out ‘that was the best school day ever!’

Nice to hear and see

@Badbadbunny

every time a family books a term time holiday they're told they are putting their child's education at serious risk by missing a single week. They have now missed six months and counting.

When you miss a week due to a holiday, the rest of the class have moved on and you're left behind. When the entire cohort has missed 6 months, they're all in the same boat. Can you not see the difference??

Not to mention a holiday is non essential. A worldwide pandemic that has cost hundreds of thousands of lives and could have cost millions of lives had drastic action not been taken all over the World is a very different scenario.

But the whole cohort aren't all in the same boat are they?

Dependent on level of education of parents who have been 'homeschooling ' their children through lockdown, the importance that those parents place on education, resources available within the family home and even availability of parents to spend time with their DC eg if they are FT WFH .

Some children , generally from poorer backgrounds are massively disadvantaged.

You're panicking. I got a test easily this weekend, had my pick of times at the drive thru centre.

There may be more localised lockdowns and self isolation for certain classes but I don't think you need to worry.

Also if a lot of the new cases are among the under 60s it doesn't necessarily follow that the death rate will soar.

Deep breath, keep going.

It is so heartening to see such concern for disadvantaged kids and their poor home lives/lack of access to technology/gap in learning. So few people gave a shit before.

I hope the concern continues when it is no longer useful to their argument.

Of course the death rate is going to soar! Vulnerable people are being forced into work, their children will be bringing it home.

Another day with a big number of cases and cases are always lower than usual on a Monday due to the Sunday lag. Tomorrow’s numbers are going to be horrible.

Schools will carry on closing every day now. Admittances to hospital has started to go up. Deaths will follow. It was an absolutely stupid idea to have schools go back as normal and I say that as a mother of a child who really needed to go back. The government will have even more blood on their hands this time.

@Friendsoftheearth

TheSunIsStillShining I am not sure you have fully understood the situation in schools. Some can not offer online schooling even if they wanted to, as it has been decided there are too many safeguarding issues, so many schools simply did not and could offer this, the children were left with emailed work that no one checked.

Secondly you are if I can put this gently, blindly assuming that everyone can afford and has access to laptops, computers and wifi. Why has it not occurred to you that the children that need the most support, will be those children set to lose their education because they have no access to a virtual school. Meanwhile their wealthier peers will continue to press ahead with the all the advantages.

Finally the most important reason for keeping schools open at all costs is protection. There are thousands of children in abject poverty, being abused and neglected without a safety net. Even the GP surgeries are closed. If for no other reason schools must stay open to ensure these children come safely through the pandemic.

You might suggest this and that, but the reality, and I should know given my line of work - is that many thousands of children already will never ever recover from the last lockdown.

So you are damn right, I want a no compromise approach, where possible we must keep all schools open and all children educated (and fed) and we close everything else before we even consider our schools. We owe it to our children, all of our children this at the very least. In my view.

I couldn’t agree more with this. I work in children’s health and development, and this is exactly the view of senior people in the field.

Of course the death rate is going to soar!

Based on what? Have you got a crystal ball?

My GS went back on Thursday. Afternoon then Friday morning. Hes in year 1 now and absolutely loved being back. Hes off now as come down with bad cough over weekend so having to test before hes allowed back to school. DD self isolating and wfh and as we are in his bubble we also self isolating until his result. Its going to be a long old winter!

Definite klaxon gone out.

Thing is, if you throw teachers to the wolves, you might find you don't have any teachers. There already aren't enough of them.

And schools can't stay open, and kids can't get a decent education with no teachers.

Treating teachers well and keeping them safe is actually important.

@noblegiraffe

Definite klaxon gone out.

Thing is, if you throw teachers to the wolves, you might find you don't have any teachers. There already aren't enough of them.

And schools can't stay open, and kids can't get a decent education with no teachers.

Treating teachers well and keeping them safe is actually important.

So you think enough teachers will die or be off longer than two weeks that we won't have enough teachers and schools will close?

Yeah. Seems really likely.

Please try to remember that during lockdown no one was getting tested really unless you were in hospital. The positive cases numbers between then and now are not comparable!

If enough teachers get sick then schools will close, Trust, partially or fully. They already had to at the start of lockdown. You shouldn't be reckless about teachers getting sick, especially with reports that it can be a long illness.

And if you treat teachers like shit, they will not stay in teaching. They already are leaving in droves. Kids need experienced teachers.

@noblegiraffe

If enough teachers get sick then schools will close, Trust, partially or fully. They already had to at the start of lockdown. You shouldn't be reckless about teachers getting sick, especially with reports that it can be a long illness.

And if you treat teachers like shit, they will not stay in teaching. They already are leaving in droves. Kids need experienced teachers.

Well considering you couldn't get a test unless you were admitted to hospital we have little to no idea how many teachers were Ill with covid and how many had a cough or a temp attributed to something else entirely. Now we can test most teachers will be back after a couple of days. Doesn't really warrant closing whole schools.

I'm not being reckless about anyone getting sick but I think you've forgotten for most people this is a mild illness.

Kids do need experienced teachers but they also need ones who are willing to teach them and don't treat them like plague carrying rats.

“If you took any business and said you can only use the same building, have the same number of people present, and must complete the same tasks in the same time to the same standard how do we ever think that SD is possible to maintain in any meaningful way?

As cases rise there will be more pupils and staff absent , year groups self isolating as tests are more difficult to secure, increasing community infection feeds through to school even ignoring the possibility of transmission in school which having seen how things work after being back over a week will happen ( especially in hotspots)“

Teachers have my sympathies. It’s the government I blame for the lack of social distancing not schools. It’s leasing to mayhem even quicker than I imagined. I hope they u turn but I doubt it.

There have been multiple reports about a lack of testing today, so unless gov sort that out, it’s far from guaranteed that teachers will be back after a few days.

Now we can test most teachers will be back after a couple of days.

If they are negative.

Which means you should be really keen to improve safety measures for teachers, yes?

@Bluelinings

There have been multiple reports about a lack of testing today, so unless gov sort that out, it’s far from guaranteed that teachers will be back after a few days.

Ten days at the most then without a test.

Perhaps if people stopped advising everyone to test things that aren't symptoms there would be tests available.

@noblegiraffe

Now we can test most teachers will be back after a couple of days.

If they are negative.

Which means you should be really keen to improve safety measures for teachers, yes?

Improve safety measures how?

There is no way to do that which doesn't offer some sort of half education.

[quote TheSunIsStillShining]@Friendsoftheearth

1. These type of schools could have been prepared in the past 6 months
2. laptop/internet: see point 1. - gov should have done this already
3. There could be options to help kids who need it - similar to keyworker's children being in school.
4. Finally the most important reason for keeping schools open at all costs is protection. There are thousands of children in abject poverty, being abused and neglected without a safety net.

As much as I see your point, this has nothing to do with education, and should be handled by social service. Again, what the actual fuck has the gov and governing bodies been doing to address these issues?

So you're saying that because we have a faulty social net, whole of society should be prepared to get infected (with god knows what long term effects) so that the most vulnerable children can be safe? Or all children should be okay to be in school, off school, in school,.... and take whatever education they get.
It seems to me that you are very passionate about a minority issue and look through that lens only. And whilst we have to make sure that minorities are catered for, it should never be at the expense or the majority.

I wholeheartedly agree on the issue though, but think that it should be re-phrased and demand that these kids have special provisions and be looked after properly?[/quote]

Children who are already known to Children's Social Care have been offered school places all along . The issue is that as these children are often in families nowhere there is Neglect , including neglect of education , only a small proportion of these children who have been offered school places have taken them up.

You also suggest that responsibility for these children lies with social services not schools . Where on earth do you think social services get their referrals from? If you believe this is through concerned friends / family this is very much in the minority, the majority of referrals to children's social care come from other professionals working with the family , and for school age children this is the school . If children are not in school then so much neglect and abuse slips under the radar as no-one is seeing these children

Improve safety measures how?

It's like you haven't been on five million of these threads already and seen eleven billion different suggestions. Bloody hell.

@noblegiraffe

Improve safety measures how?

It's like you haven't been on five million of these threads already and seen eleven billion different suggestions. Bloody hell.

Yes and all of them include some sort of half education, don't they?

No Trust they don’t. You really don’t actually read what anyone else is saying do you?