Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

School half day once a week for deep clean...

223 replies

Baconking · 04/09/2020 16:48

..and non teaching time for staff.
Are any other schools doing this? Just wondered if it is the norm?
We're also being charged for childcare for the afternoon if unable to pick up after lunch

OP posts:
Aragog · 05/09/2020 15:52

Statisticalsense

That's exactly what I'm doing. I teach at an indent school and I cover PPA for all classes. I go in every class and every year group bubble so up to 270 children every week.

We aren't closing. We are carrying on as we did previously with me going in every class. As I'm crossing bubbles, plus I'm clinically vulnerable myself, I am technically supposed to be socially distancing when teaching. However with 4-7 year olds we all know that's going to be impossible. Think it's just a case if fingers crossed 🤞

Aragog · 05/09/2020 15:56

TA’s should not be covering PPA anyway.

A Hlta is allowed to cover whole class teaching in a regular basis. Level 3 and below shouldn't be doing so on a regular basis. Cover supervisor roles, which are often level 3, have different guidelines again though.

notevenat20 · 05/09/2020 16:03

Even if we could find cleaning staff, the government has refused to provide any extra funding and with 2 out of 3 schools in my LA having a deficit budget (pre- COVID) this is so difficult.

Sorry if I am being dim but how does closing the school for half a day on a Friday help this?

notevenat20 · 05/09/2020 16:07

What is this ‘deep cleaning’? I envisage this as cleaning behind the cupboards, cleaning light fittings, undersides of desks etc. I’d have thought a daily wipe clean of key surfaces would be sufficient. Or is the word ‘deep’ added to give reassurance to nervous parents?

It is somehow meant to justify closing the school during teaching hours. I still don't understand why that is needed at all when cleaning can and does happen before and after school and on Saturdays.

Hercwasonaroll · 05/09/2020 16:26

Sorry if I am being dim but how does closing the school for half a day on a Friday help this?

No PPA cover cost = money for cleaners.

plasticboxesrock · 05/09/2020 16:26

I'm a HLTA covering PPA in all the bubbles in my primary, 420 children. I'm also a 1:1 TA with a girl who licks me, climbs on me, etc. There is no SD. The children are all over each other as they always were.

There's no extra cleaning happening by any HLTAs or TAs and our usual (useless) cleaners are just emptying bins and swishing dirty mops round the toilet floors same as they ever did. We had a case of Covid early in March and the "deep clean" for which we were closed just mean the same cleaners wandered round with a packet of flash wipes bitching about the children as they usually do.

My DH is ECV with 2 different reasons for a shielding letter. I am not allowed to wear a mask or visor. Our DD is in a huge secondary with little SD either.

The reality of this situation is massively different to what the government wants parents to think is the case.

notevenat20 · 05/09/2020 16:29

I work in the public sector, and if we had 10% time set aside that we refused to be accountable for in any way

I also work in the public sector and am paid roughly what an experienced school teacher is. The level of self righteousness you read here from some teachers is just amazing. When the local primary head comes back from his 6 week holiday with his family with a deep tan, and I have had one week off, let's just say they not doing themselves any favours.

MarshaBradyo · 05/09/2020 16:31

I’ve just read the school document it seems there’s extra cleaning throughout the day. So they don’t have to shut for this. It’s hard when it’s your school that does it.

notevenat20 · 05/09/2020 16:31

No PPA cover cost = money for cleaners

Do you mean it's much cheaper to get someone to clean in the school during school teaching hours than outside those hours?

TenhillPlace · 05/09/2020 16:38

I’ve just read the school document it seems there’s extra cleaning throughout the day. So they don’t have to shut for this. It’s hard when it’s your school that does it

Only if teaching staff and TA's agree to clean during the day and can be trained to use the cleaning materials ( (Health and Safety legislation) ...and obviously not part of a teacher/ HT/ TA/ admin staff job description; or if the school cleaner agrees to change his/her hours to clean during the day or extra cleaners can be found to increase the hours and the school can find the money to pay them.

MarshaBradyo · 05/09/2020 16:42

@TenhillPlace

I’ve just read the school document it seems there’s extra cleaning throughout the day. So they don’t have to shut for this. It’s hard when it’s your school that does it

Only if teaching staff and TA's agree to clean during the day and can be trained to use the cleaning materials ( (Health and Safety legislation) ...and obviously not part of a teacher/ HT/ TA/ admin staff job description; or if the school cleaner agrees to change his/her hours to clean during the day or extra cleaners can be found to increase the hours and the school can find the money to pay them.

This made me read again as I was interested in which. It’s additional cleaners. So I guess somehow they have the money.
Popcornriver · 05/09/2020 16:53

They're not here but I wouldn't complain if they did.

Hercwasonaroll · 05/09/2020 17:04

No, I mean if you haven't got to pay for PPA cover, you can use the money for cleaners.

Randomschoolworker19 · 05/09/2020 17:05

As someone who works in a school this is the reality for us.

Children sit in rows with two to a desk side by side. They have all their resources and are not allowed to stand up or move around unless they ask.

In the morning arrival can take up to 20 minutes as the children need to wash their hands and go to their lockers to put away their things. This needs to be done in small groups and has to be staggered because the year group next door uses the same corridor for their lockers and we cannot mix. So picture 60 young children doing this and you will understand why it takes so long.

At lunch the children eat their lunch in the classroom. The staff in their bubble alternate having their lunch so there is always someone supervising. As for the staff eating their lunch, they eat their lunch in the large hall where every year group has their own table which is far apart from the rest. Thankfully there is a fridge, microwave and kettle in there, although they too need to be wiped down between uses.

We don't have to wear a mask or visor in the classroom with our bubble but we do if we're anywhere else in the school.

As for the children at lunch, we clean their tables before and after and they need to clean their hands at both times too. Anyone who has young children will know how messy they can be.

Play time and lunch time play times are staggered so year groups don't mix, and we wipe down the toilets, sinks, taps and doors every hour.

PPA is covered by our lvl 4 TA who stands at the front of the class well away from the children wearing a visor and gloves. The TAs in the room assist since we want to reduce the amount staff move between bubbles even if this is allowed.

Parents have to wear a mask at pickup and drop off or they are refused entry.

At the end of day each classroom is cleaned by the staff in the bubble. So yes that means TAs and teachers when normally they'd be doing other things.

Hercwasonaroll · 05/09/2020 17:08

I'll happily tell you what I do in my 3hrs of PPA.

Plan 22 lessons
Mentor a trainee (entitled to an hour a week minimum)
Set homework on teams
Mark homework on teams
Mark classwork on teams
Organise photocopying of resources for a key stage
Plan assessments for a key stage
Chase up behaviour incidents
Phone parents
And a ton of other stuff that varies by time of year eg reports, data entry, results analysis

In reality that all takes far longer than 3 hours.

Derbygerbil · 05/09/2020 17:09

30+ children washing their hands just once can easily take 20 minutes or more. It’s not one child washing their hands for an hour each. And not really a basis for a anxiety related illness like OCD.

Presumably there is more than one sink per child? I don’t see why with say 4 sinks (2 in boys and 2 in girls) this can’t be accomplished in 5 minutes at the end of break times... 20 seconds each, 10 seconds for turn around, that’s 8 per minute.

Hercwasonaroll · 05/09/2020 17:13

😂 Derby has clearly never worked with children!

In some places there are very few sinks too. No extra funding for more either.

TenhillPlace · 05/09/2020 17:14

No, I mean if you haven't got to pay for PPA cover, you can use the money for cleaners

PPA isn't a choice it is a legal requirement. Can't decide not to have PPA and have a cleaner instead.

Without PPA the quality of children's learning suffers.

Hercwasonaroll · 05/09/2020 17:16

But if everyone has PPA at the same time, and school is shut then you don't need to pay for cover....

CallmeAngelina · 05/09/2020 17:16

I don’t see why with say 4 sinks (2 in boys and 2 in girls) this can’t be accomplished in 5 minutes at the end of break times
How many classes do you suppose need to use those sinks?

notevenat20 · 05/09/2020 17:21

*I'll happily tell you what I do in my 3hrs of PPA"

Thanks for the list. It definitely looks more than 3 hours. What is hard for non teachers to understand is what work routinely happens when the children aren't there. E.g. are 3:30pm every day. You hear stories of teachers marking until midnight. If that is still true, the PPA time seems almost irrelevant.

Derbygerbil · 05/09/2020 17:21

How many classes do you suppose need to use those sinks?

Presumably you can stagger their usage?

Perhaps my timings were a bit optimistic, especially for younger children, but I don’t see why the TA can’t take groups of children out to wash hands in groups whilst the rest of the class is doing things.

Any arrangement that requires 20% of the school day to be taken up with hand washing, reducing our children’s education by a further fifth seems a poor use of time. Include the Friday afternoon off, and those children seem to be getting a part time education!

notevenat20 · 05/09/2020 17:21

after 3:30pm

notevenat20 · 05/09/2020 17:22

Include the Friday afternoon off, and those children seem to be getting a part time education!

I completely agree. At least locally, everyone is trying to work out if there is any way they can move their DC to private school now.

Derbygerbil · 05/09/2020 17:23

I'll happily tell you what I do in my 3hrs of PPA

I fully recognise that teachers need to do PPA, and that 3 hours probably isn’t enough... That wasn’t what I had an issue with, it was refusing to say what the time was used for. It seemed completely counterproductive.

Swipe left for the next trending thread