School half day once a week for deep clean...

[Baconking]

..and non teaching time for staff.
Are any other schools doing this? Just wondered if it is the norm?
We're also being charged for childcare for the afternoon if unable to pick up after lunch

@echt

I think my main problem with it is the number of taught hours for my DC being reduced after so much time off

Pupil attendance is calculated by days, divided into morning and afternoon attendance, not hours. So if the pupils are registered for the afternoon session, then their days of education have been satisfied.

school are creating a problem for working parents but are happy to answer that problem if you pay for it by offering childcare

Schools are there to educate children, not make the life of working parents more or less workable. Schools are not childcare.

How is the afternoon session of teaching happening here?

I think 'schools are not childcare' misses the point.
Our society expects parents to work, once their children reach school age. You only need to attend a Universal Credit interview, to realise this. Stating that 'I can't look for work because I have no childcare, because school is for education, not to make the lives if working parents workable' would lead to a sanction, for sure.
Similarly, I'd get nowhere by putting my 10 year old in to private nursery instead of school, as the hours are longer, then trying to reclaim the childcare costs through Universal Credit.

Children have a statutory right to full time education. Not sure how this fits in with that unless they are arranging for online learning for every child when the school is closed

Schools can decided the 'make up' of the day though. If schools have shortened the lunch break and playtime for instance, the accumulated learning time remains the same...and sometimes increases.

Academies have even more flexibility.

Schools can decided the 'make up' of the day though. If schools have shortened the lunch break and playtime for instance, the accumulated learning time remains the same...and sometimes increases.

Are they doing this op?

And how does this fit with pp on attendance for morning and afternoon sessions not counting hours.

... learning time increasing, even though an afternoon session is removed.

Supply cover is becoming so hard to find. Teachers have an entitlement to PPA - and if learning is to be quality for every child this is essential.

I think 'schools are not childcare' misses the point

No it doesn't.

Your arguments about UC interview is neither here nor there and not the school's problem.If schools were legally obliged to provide childcare they would.

But they're not, so they don't.

Schools are not childcare no. So offering paid for childcare instead of full time education doesn’t cut it.

@Bunkumum

TA’s should not be covering PPA anyway.

Why?

marsho - could they be registering after lunch and having a Wednesday afternoon as a '15 minute session' - that would just be an internal organisation decision by the HT.

An early start to the day or a shortened lunch time say 30 mins each morning for 5 mornings would give an extra 2 hours and 30 mins of teaching time...covers Wednesday pm.

@echt

I think my main problem with it is the number of taught hours for my DC being reduced after so much time off

Pupil attendance is calculated by days, divided into morning and afternoon attendance, not hours. So if the pupils are registered for the afternoon session, then their days of education have been satisfied.

school are creating a problem for working parents but are happy to answer that problem if you pay for it by offering childcare

Schools are there to educate children, not make the life of working parents more or less workable. Schools are not childcare.

I know they aren't childcare and I have childcare after normal school hours which the school have decided to change 1 day per week, leaving me and other working parents with only 1 childcare option...them!

@TenhillPlace

marsho - could they be registering after lunch and having a Wednesday afternoon as a '15 minute session' - that would just be an internal organisation decision by the HT.

An early start to the day or a shortened lunch time say 30 mins each morning for 5 mornings would give an extra 2 hours and 30 mins of teaching time...covers Wednesday pm.

Registering for a 15 minute session sounds like a loophole to me. But the early morning start, you mean moving the whole school start time by 30 minutes.

Have they done this op? I can’t imagine many state schools doing this, start time is pretty standard isn’t it

I know they aren't childcare and I have childcare after normal school hours which the school have decided to change 1 day per week, leaving me and other working parents with only 1 childcare option...them!

Jesus, can't you read? Schools. Are. Not. Childcare.

They are not your only childcare option because they are er....not a childcare option.

Echt how is charging for childcare for an afternoon still providing ft education?

Lots of schools introduced shorter day or half day before Covid where all teachers had ppa together.

Because they cannot afford the person to cover.

I suspect many more will introduce this under Covid as it's a good reason and maybe easier to get parents on board.

I wouldn't be surprised if it continues as the norm.

Education funding is shittier and shittier every year.

@MarshaBradyo

Schools can decided the 'make up' of the day though. If schools have shortened the lunch break and playtime for instance, the accumulated learning time remains the same...and sometimes increases.

Are they doing this op?

And how does this fit with pp on attendance for morning and afternoon sessions not counting hours.

They have shortened the lunch break by 15 minutes but staggered start times means 1 of my DC starts at 9.30 instead of 9 so are still losing 15 mins a day and from 1pm on Wednesday

Who will do childcare then. The government need me to go to work

@echt

I know they aren't childcare and I have childcare after normal school hours which the school have decided to change 1 day per week, leaving me and other working parents with only 1 childcare option...them!

Jesus, can't you read? Schools. Are. Not. Childcare.

They are not your only childcare option because they are er....not a childcare option.

Can't YOU read?

The school are offering childcare for the afternoon for the afternoon they are closing. It is CHILDCARE!!!
I cannot use my after school childcare option as they run after normal school hours.

I can’t imagine many state schools doing this, start time is pretty standard isn’t it

No not at all, completely an operational decision by the HT. We have schools that start ( in none COVID times) anytime between 8.15 and 9.10.
Sometimes HT's need to work with other schools to give consistency...but not always.
Sometimes the decision is made by local need, HT's are aware of parents moving children because the hours of learning don't suit them or because the other local school offers more convenient hours.

Sort of a loophole the 15 minute session but as long as hours are covered elsewhere is fine to do.

It's not 'my' Universal Credit argument - it's built in to the benefits system. As my child is of school age, I am assumed to have childcare for term time weekdays and may not cite lack of childcare as a reason not to take up paid employment during school hours.
It is because schools exist that alternative childcare during school hours, doesn't.

Tenhill I don’t have cc issues so fulfilling teaching time is the issue for me, although I can see reduced hours is a big issue for others. Including teachers. Some will find it hard like any profession if their dc school does the same.

But the op’s school hasn’t made up the time. I assume she can ask more about this.

@Derbygerbil

You don’t think teaching staff should receive PPA time?

I have no problem with PPA time, but would have a problem with 10% of my child’s week being cut to achieve this after they’ve been out for nearly 6 months, especially for the reason given.

A deep clean on a Friday is possibly the most disproportionate and pointless Covid measure I’ve yet heard of. It’s like having to wear masks in a forest or whilst driving (both have been rules in some places), only worse as it adversely effects children’s education to no end. It’s the equivalent to wearing a St Christopher medallion...

How do you suggest teachers plan your child's lessons if they're denied non contact time?

I’d also wonder why the whole school had to shift hours when getting in earlier could be the option for the staff and teaching time remains standard.

See latest guidance published on 1st of Sept

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/actions-for-schools-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak/guidance-for-full-opening-schools#attendance

In the introduction It is our plan that all pupils, in all year groups, will return to school full-time from the beginning of the autumn term

However, this is guidance and schools are doing their best in difficult circumstances. The guidance does also say **
There cannot be a ‘one-size-fits-all’ approach where the system of controls describes every scenario. School leaders will be best placed to understand the needs of their schools and communities and to make informed judgments about how to balance delivering a broad and balanced curriculum with the measures needed to manage risk

So quite broad government guidance!
HT's will be balancing safety, staffing levels ( perhaps HLTA's are working to maximise bubbles) and availability of supply staff and the focus on children making progress. Detailed Risk Assessments are in place and could point to a shortened afternoon session, being, on balance the best (only?) way to manage the risk.

@MarshaBradyo Because then the staff would be entitled to more PPA.

Our school isn't shutting for a half a day, but have changed their opening hours so that every school day is 3/4 hour shorter.

So my DS only in school for 5 1/2 hours, of which 4 hours is lesson time. They've said this is due to the need for staggered transitions and extra cleaning.

I'm not sure how children are mean to be "catching up" when they're losing nearly an hour of education every day 🤔