School half day once a week for deep clean...

[Baconking]

..and non teaching time for staff.
Are any other schools doing this? Just wondered if it is the norm?
We're also being charged for childcare for the afternoon if unable to pick up after lunch

[quote Hercwasonaroll]@MarshaBradyo Because then the staff would be entitled to more PPA.[/quote]
Why? Aren’t they equal? If you increase teaching hours by earlier starts so teaching time is not lost then convert this to PPA instead and keep teaching time as standard hours.

I’ve heard of this happening in schools before covid. I think the current situation is a handy way of Implementing the change, but with all the budget cuts schools have faced, I’m surprised more haven’t gone down this route. If a school is having to pay someone to cover all the PPA for teachers across the week, it can work out at a full time job for someone. If that wage can be saved by closing at lunchtime, I’m not surprised schools are using it as a cost saving measure.

Whilst I get the struggle to ensure a safe environment for both pupils and teachers (and the requirement for PPA time), where are parents expected to find the additional money from to pay for the childcare they now need to use when actually, their child should be in school. Not only does it impose a further financial burden onto already struggling parents who may have suffered a significant financial hit during lockdown it also further emphasises the educational gap between children whose schools are up and running at full hours and those who are losing teaching time. It may only equate to a couple of hours a week but this soon adds up.

My child's school is also doing a half day one day a week and this, coupled with the fact they have staggered end times, means that one of my children is effectively losing an entire day a week and will be until at least December unlike her friends in a neighbouring school.

@Baaaahhhhh

Slightly off thread. But DD several years apart had the same lessons with the same teacher, with the same books, and the same format. Not much PPA going in there. You can put their books side by side and they are pretty identical.

This comment shows how little you understand about teaching and PPA. Who cares what your children produced and whether you feel PPA is worthwhile or not. It's none of your business what happens during PPA just like it's none of my business what your job is and what that consists of. For goodness sakes.

I agree pennylane83

It hits vulnerable families hardest. My DS attends a special school with no after school childcare on site. Finding affordable childcare for a child with additional needs is almost impossible.

One local primary doing this and one not. You could have predicted which was going to shut in advance.

It makes no sense to me. Cleaners work on a Saturday and after 4pm. Why do you need to shut the school?

@Pobblebonk

Hmmm. Children have a statutory right to full time education. Not sure how this fits in with that unless they are arranging for online learning for every child when the school is closed.

This sounds like something that cannot be up for interpretation wrt to guidance quote below.

Not that I disagree with it but I question whether the guidance can be interpreted to mean it is no longer a statutory requirement.

It's none of your business what happens during PPA just like it's none of my business what your job is and what that consists of. For goodness sakes.

If you want people to be supportive of PPA time, this reaction doesn’t really help. I have worked in an educational setting so understand what’s involved and recognise the need for PPA time, but if I hadn’t, I’d read your response and think teachers might be swinging the lead.

I’m a primary teacher and a working parent and I actually don’t agree with schools doing this - five less intense days is much more preferable to four and a half with shortened breaks, in terms of what young children can cope with.

However, I am senior enough to have some experience of budgets and funding, and honestly some schools have no choice. It’s no good saying ‘but my child’s school doesn’t need to do this so why does X school’ - the funding calculations are so complex, and they disproportionately negatively impact smaller schools.

@MarshaBradyo

I’d also wonder why the whole school had to shift hours when getting in earlier could be the option for the staff and teaching time remains standard.

Different schools work differently obviously, but TAs do enough teaching with groups first thing in the morning at my school that the school wouldn’t be able to afford to increase their hours so that they could start earlier. Just sending children in earlier isn’t a magic solution unfortunately.

I don't like it to be honest but understand why schools do it (money). During my PPA, my class are taught by specialist art and music teachers. I have never played an instrument and my drawing is atrocious. No primary teacher is perfect at teaching every subject and it is great for the children to be taught by different adults with different strengths.

Also, 26 teachers doing their planning at the same time is a covid nightmare as we only have 3 photocopiers and everyone would need them at the same time!

PPA is 10% of teaching time. Teachers can only be 'directed' for 1265 hours a year. PPA has to be included in this.

@Derbygerbil

It's none of your business what happens during PPA just like it's none of my business what your job is and what that consists of. For goodness sakes.

If you want people to be supportive of PPA time, this reaction doesn’t really help. I have worked in an educational setting so understand what’s involved and recognise the need for PPA time, but if I hadn’t, I’d read your response and think teachers might be swinging the lead.

I don't teach so...

And full time education is a statutory requirement regardless of how teachers meet the 10%.

Nails I agree that shifting school start to 8.10am isn’t the right way to go not just for TA reasons. It was more responding to pp who suggested it was quite common.

@Derbygerbil

It's none of your business what happens during PPA just like it's none of my business what your job is and what that consists of. For goodness sakes.

If you want people to be supportive of PPA time, this reaction doesn’t really help. I have worked in an educational setting so understand what’s involved and recognise the need for PPA time, but if I hadn’t, I’d read your response and think teachers might be swinging the lead.

And teachers don't need people to be supportive of ppa just like me/you/my next door neighbour don't need to be supportive of business meetings. It's part of the job.

It makes no sense to me. Cleaners work on a Saturday and after 4pm. Why do you need to shut the school?

Cleaners clean before and after school on set, very limited hours. This is due to cost and staffing. However under COVID more cleaning is essential to keep your children as safe as possible.

Finding cleaners to clean schools is just about impossible here in usual circumstances and the need for extra cleaning hours just can't be staffed ( which is why in many schools teachers and TA's have agreed to clean). Cleaning is part of the legal Risk Assessments (HSE), without increased cleaning regimes, schools would be closed.

Even if we could find cleaning staff, the government has refused to provide any extra funding and with 2 out of 3 schools in my LA having a deficit budget (pre- COVID) this is so difficult.

Department of Education Guidance on Attendance includes the school day.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/907535/Schoollattendanceguidanceefor20200to20211academic_year.pdf
P17

• School day and school year The law regulating the school day and school year applies only to schools maintained by a local authority and special schools not maintained by a local authority. This law does not apply to academies and Free Schools. School Day Every school day must have two sessions divided by a break in the middle of the day. The length of each session, break and the school day is determined by the school’s governing body. School Year Schools must meet for at least 380 sessions or 190 days during any school year to educate their pupils. If a school is prevented from meeting for one or more sessions because of an unavoidable event, it should find a practical way of holding extra sessions. If it cannot find a practical way of doing this then it is not required to make up the lost*

Nope, primary here and full time with normal start and finish. We parents have to wear masks but that is it.

@Baaaahhhhh

Slightly off thread. But DD several years apart had the same lessons with the same teacher, with the same books, and the same format. Not much PPA going in there. You can put their books side by side and they are pretty identical.

An off topic reply 😊

Some curriculum objectives remain the same/similar so some planning can be reused but it will always need to be tweaked to suit the needs of the class. There will always be children will additional needs in a class so powerpoints/resources need to be adapted to make sure every child can be included. Dyslexic child- need to change the font for them on all their resources. Child just moved from abroad and no English- need extra visuals. Autistic child- need to remove the whooshing sounds from the powerpoint so they don't get scared. Plus all the photocopying and laminating, planning homework.

Think how many lessons are taught a week. I've worked out I have 11 mins to do all that for each lesson if I don't want to do it outside my PPA! (But obviously I do the rest at home).

Tenhill PPA wouldn’t count as an unavoidable event.

@MarshaBradyo

Tenhill PPA wouldn’t count as an unavoidable event.

But there’s no statuatory length to the school day - so two sessions per day counts as full time education - if those two sessions happen before 12.30 then you’ve had your full time.

I thought it was attendance to morning and afternoon sessions. Is the definition of afternoon flexible too?

This sounds crazy. Full time is just that.

Out of interest, how many days a year counts as full time education? Private schools often have much shorter terms and I have always wondered if the children (well, the parents) could be done for truancy :)

Every school day must have two sessions divided by a break in the middle of the day.

How do they get away with having both sessions before lunch?