Think the focus should shift to university

[CKBJ]

I am still concerned for my children to return to school, not because I think they will become unwell but the risk of Covid entering our house where vulnerable grandparents live with us and for the teaching staff who seem to have little protection. However, not much is being said about universities opening in a few weeks and the new focus should be this.

Many, many students will be moving into halls of residence and student houses bringing together students from all over the country. Independent sage has been arguing for all courses unless they require lab/practical elements to be offered online and remotely. This won’t suit all students but does give them an option and possibly reduce the amount of students moving around the country. Fees should be reduced accordingly. As the majority of students use a student loan to pay fees, they should only be responsible for paying for say 3/4s back and the 1/4 is covered by the government therefore meaning the university doesn’t lose any funding. The government seems to find money for many other things.

I was just considering the education side but obviously there is the whole social side as well. Many cities will have an influx of students into their pubs and bars. This could put a lot of pressure on the local areas increasing the possibility of transmission.

It seems nearly every year there are outbreaks of Meningitis and other illnesses that seem to occur when students all gather together. These aren’t going away, they will still be a risk and the added risk will be Covid.

I’m grateful I my children are not heading off to university this year but do feel for those who are and their families. Anyone else have any thoughts?

That blanket 2 threshold is still applying at my DS school sixth form. Will be annoying if someone he never shares a classroom with gets a positive test and he has to stay home for 2 weeks needlessly. They could easily and accurately establish which pupils need to stay home.
Likewise, he could sit behind a year 7 with a positive test on the school bus and never get told to quarantine (based on ultimate defence of mask).

I know lecturers who died and also ones with long covid, which is awful.

Universities will open as planned.
Things will not be perfect in terms of risk management, but not will they be ‘back to normal.’
This students will not have the full university experience- nothing like it.
And yes there will be outbreaks - hopefully small and containable.

It’s a compromise.

It is is the inconsistency that is the problem: sit on a plane - ok, go abroad - ok, go to bar/pub/restaurant - ok, go to gym and pool - ok, go to casino -ok, go work in a huge office - ok, public transport - ok, BUT go to school or university - just one case and you all have to stay home for 2 weeks irrespective of whether you ever came near the infected person.

Things would be clearer and easier to understand if the government had not reopened everything almost regardless of risk and with the acceptance that some virus transmission would take place - that acceptance does not seem to apply to education.

What would have been better is if the government had reopened schools, colleges and universities first and then opened non-essential settings.

A lot of the non-freshers are already back, in their rental 'bubbles', ready to start back over the next month or so.

What would have been better is if the government had reopened schools, colleges and universities first and then opened non-essential settings.

What we’re seeing is the inevitable outcome of having an economy that is so heavily service-based. Having people go out and consume non-essentials is essential to a country like ours. We’re reaping the consequences of that now, with one of the worst-hit economies in the developed world.

Jandemic yes I agree , I absolutely think that the eat out scheme should be suspended for sept and Oct, I really think people should be discouraged from socialising outside of the absolutely necessary in order that education can have a fighting chance . I understand that there are high risk people in every age group but the priority has to be the young . I’ve had my 55 years Zi will makes my sacrifices necessary to ensure that my young adults get the best opportunities to lead their lives as possible . After all these young people are going to be the ones caring for us and paying taxes in the future .

@Peaseblossom22 Yes, and what happened to that Chris Witty statement a week or 2 ago about how we have reached the limit of what can open without jeopardising schools. That was promptly followed by the government reopening casinos and bowling alleys!
You are right that now schools, colleges and universities are going back, the government should really be starting a campaign to reduce other non-essential activity, maybe limit travel or socialising, definitely stop the EOTOHO - it would be much more of a help to reduce virus transmission.
I think this was also referred to by Chris Witty, in that other things may need to close so that schools can re-open - well, that never happened, did it?!

"other things may need to close so that schools can re-open " - and yet, the government's nudge PR is priming us all for schools closing again and chance of national lockdown.

You m. Dc

@GCAcademic

What would have been better is if the government had reopened schools, colleges and universities first and then opened non-essential settings.

What we’re seeing is the inevitable outcome of having an economy that is so heavily service-based. Having people go out and consume non-essentials is essential to a country like ours. We’re reaping the consequences of that now, with one of the worst-hit economies in the developed world.

This is the absolute crux of the issue. All of the things that need to happen in order to control a disease like this are incompatible with an economy such as ours. This government is taking decisions that support the economy rather than health and education.

@Jamdemic

How will the blanket 1 (or 2) pupil(s) with a positive test leading to all 200 pupils in a school year group having to stay home for 2 weeks be applied to universities?

I think this blanket advice is already wrong for sixth forms where many pupils will never be inside a classroom with another set of pupils (for example, one pupil might do maths, physics and chemistry and will never be in close proximity for 15 minutes or longer with another pupil studying english, french and history from a different tutor group).

Sixth forms require a local response in my view, which is probably what universities will be told to do also.

That isn’t in the guidance, as far as I know.

just one case and you all have to stay home for 2 weeks irrespective of whether you ever came near the infected person.

This really is not true.

This government is taking decisions that support the economy rather than health and education.

That’s been clear since February.

I know one academic over 60 who has retired because of covid and the way his university will deal with it. Are there other similar stories?

This government is taking decisions that support the economy rather than health and education.

This not quite true. Lockdown is clearly not in the short term economic interests of the country. You have to think what you would do and what the likely consequences are. I don't know of any obvious answers.

@notevenat20

I know one academic over 60 who has retired because of covid and the way his university will deal with it. Are there other similar stories?

My university has had a decent uptake from its voluntary leavers’ scheme. And my cousin who is an academic at another institution has brought forward his retirement plans. OK for those who can afford it. My husband’s colleague has taken a year’s unpaid leave. Her teaching has to be shared amongst remaining colleagues, which seems particularly shitty.

I know of 3 academics who have retired on grounds of vulnerability.

I’m lucky. St the moment my place is not being draconian about each lecturer spending X% of teaching time in person.

But they are using a “COVID age” calculator that calculates my C19 age as 2 years younger than my actual age and only at “moderate” risk, despite having asthma, high blood pressure and a history of oral steroids and very bad lung infections.

I must get round to seeing my GP to check up on my position in this.

Universities are about ‘business’ which is why so many are already organising quarantining, have moved everything they can online, no social groups etc

Without students their income is down. Many unis get income from accom too. Towns need the student support jobs, whether catering, cleaning, retail, bars or teaching.

We ‘import’ international students who pay a great deal.

We should be getting the campuses etc as open as possible else there will be job losses. Of course not big gatherings, freshers etc - same rules as elsewhere. But teaching etc should be as normal as possible for the paying students - many of whom need ‘live’ classes - from medicine to music.

There was originally talk of bubbles being formed for courses, and students in those classes being housed together in the same flat/halls etc. However these appear to have been scrapped. I'm not surprised - it would have been so hard to organise.

Not all students live in halls, not even all first years. Most students who take up their insurance or go through cleaning will struggle to get in halls - the whole 'we guarantee a halls place to all first years' only applies, in many cases, if you have selected that university as your first choice by a certain date in July.

Due to the exam mess up my DD is going to her insurance but missed out on halls. She is staying in a 4 bed flat, as part of a bock - almost like private halls I guess - with 3 people she doesn't know. I dot think any are first years - though there are some in the block. Most likely different year groups, different ages and different courses. So no chance they will be treated as a bubble. She has also had to sign a year's contract for this already.

Her university has said so far 60% of the course will be face to face, and 40% online. Her school placements will still take place. They home to increase the level of face to face in time.

On the campus the shops, canteen, cafes and SU bar is planning to open, as is the sports centre and the arts centre.

I saw the news report and think it was ridiculous for the union woman to say that 'Universities would be the next care homes in the second wave'

Comparing elderly and very vulnerable people in residential and nursing homes to mainly young and fit adults in their mainly early twenties is pushing it... emotive language... oh please, hysterical nonsense makes people switch off. I agree the number of cases could rise due to people from all over the place mixing but deaths on the scale of nursing homes - seriously!

Jo Grady is ridiculous full stop. I can’t tell you how many people I know who have joined a different union since she became general secretary. I completely agree that this sort of hyperbolic and emotive language is counter productive, but that seems to be all she’s capable of. UCU stopped representing academics a while ago, and now only exists to serve the interests of its leadership. Which is unfortunate because we could actually do with representation from someone who doesn’t act like a teenage girl at the moment.*

*not that there’s anything wrong with teenage girls, but one needs a little more maturity from the leader of a union.

Comparing elderly and very vulnerable people in residential and nursing homes to mainly young and fit adults in their mainly early twenties is pushing it... emotive language

Don't forget the thousands of staff who work at universities!

I am no epidemiologist but it could be a disaster. If thousands of students become infectious and spread it to everyone they meet, killing a handful of Nobel prize winners in the interim....