Think the focus should shift to university

[CKBJ]

I am still concerned for my children to return to school, not because I think they will become unwell but the risk of Covid entering our house where vulnerable grandparents live with us and for the teaching staff who seem to have little protection. However, not much is being said about universities opening in a few weeks and the new focus should be this.

Many, many students will be moving into halls of residence and student houses bringing together students from all over the country. Independent sage has been arguing for all courses unless they require lab/practical elements to be offered online and remotely. This won’t suit all students but does give them an option and possibly reduce the amount of students moving around the country. Fees should be reduced accordingly. As the majority of students use a student loan to pay fees, they should only be responsible for paying for say 3/4s back and the 1/4 is covered by the government therefore meaning the university doesn’t lose any funding. The government seems to find money for many other things.

I was just considering the education side but obviously there is the whole social side as well. Many cities will have an influx of students into their pubs and bars. This could put a lot of pressure on the local areas increasing the possibility of transmission.

It seems nearly every year there are outbreaks of Meningitis and other illnesses that seem to occur when students all gather together. These aren’t going away, they will still be a risk and the added risk will be Covid.

I’m grateful I my children are not heading off to university this year but do feel for those who are and their families. Anyone else have any thoughts?

[JacobReesMogadishu]

Thanks.

[TheEndisCummings]

www.gov.uk/government/publications/principles-for-managing-sars-cov-2-transmission-associated-with-higher-education-3-september-2020

[JacobReesMogadishu]

Can someone link to the latest sage uni stuff please? I’ve googled and can’t find anything recent.

[Newgirls]

Yes saw that. Yet also saw something saying tests are showing positive even if infection was months ago.

Hopefully sensible measures will keep a lid on it.

[TheEndisCummings]

Seen the latest SAGE stuff on universities? Very unhopeful. Looking at a November December spike that is transmitted back across the country.

[Gwynfluff]

I've found stuff on the uni webpages where the management have been announcing policies before telling the staff and I've been the one keeping the lecturers in the loop! They didn't have a clue about the uni's latest batch of u-turns until I spotted it and started querying things!

VLEs, emails and content managed websites when many members of staff can post things has led to information overload for staff and students. Always help students who can’t find stuff, happily take a tip from a student who has read something somewhere!

[Newgirls]

Badbunny - it would be helpful to know about campus cafes etc. From memory York is a good walk from the city centre. It’s all a bit vague isn’t it.

[mrpumblechook]

I'm more concerned about campus Unis with shops/bars/restaurants etc on site, such as Lancaster and York, that are outside the city. There seems to be no information about SD in campus bars/restaurants, nor even if they'll be open at all. It'll be pretty bleak on campuses if bars/cafes are either closed or have social distancing meaning fewer tables, queues to get in, etc.

I don't know about Lancaster but in York there are plenty of bars in the city so I suppose students will go to them to socialise.

[Badbadbunny]

@Newgirls

Last minutes changes - more students, not knowing how many students, less accom, new covid rules etc are a nightmare without doubt.

Yet this is about 18 year olds leaving home after a rollercoaster few months/weeks. I am worried about their mental health. Some will be fine if course and love it all anyway, but let’s be honest, some will struggle, more than usual. More comms rather than less would be helpful from the unis. And not of the scary dining video type! Eg what clubs CAN you do? What’s the solutions for indoor socialising? Or perhaps be honest and say - for tie course you can be at home if you prefer and we will give you the chance to hold your room. Something for the students?

At the end of the day, the students WILL socialise outside the flat bubble. Of course they will. Anyone denying that is an idiot. Regardless of the rules, the Uni can't stop students from different flats socialising together. They "may" be able to limit it on campus (although I don't think they'll even try), but out in the nearby towns and cities, students WILL be socialising. I think the "bubble" rules etc are more to cover the Uni - when they get an outbreak, they can point the finger at the students for not following the SD rules.

I'm more concerned about campus Unis with shops/bars/restaurants etc on site, such as Lancaster and York, that are outside the city. There seems to be no information about SD in campus bars/restaurants, nor even if they'll be open at all. It'll be pretty bleak on campuses if bars/cafes are either closed or have social distancing meaning fewer tables, queues to get in, etc.

[KimMarie34]

It's not just the country, it's the world. At uni I lived with people from Kazakhstan, Malaysia and India, and that was in just one house.

[DominaShantotto]

However, I do find that students don't read emails, student handbooks, announcements on the VLE etc and will email me about something that could have easier been found elsewhere or has already been communicated to them.

I've found stuff on the uni webpages where the management have been announcing policies before telling the staff and I've been the one keeping the lecturers in the loop! They didn't have a clue about the uni's latest batch of u-turns until I spotted it and started querying things!

Utmost respect for my course staff who have really (we've got one who is a bit shit at replying to emails and head in the clouds and drives us mad but he's well-meaning really and just needs gently prodding to return to Planet Earth sometimes) gone above and beyond through all of this to try to keep us in the loop as much as possible and be as flexible as they can - we really do have an incredibly good department - and uni every year come asking why the hell their satisfaction scores are so blooming high... but the uni management at large is shit.

We're possibly a rare course as we're a very very small cohort in a very tight knit department (and professional community at large) and so everyone looks after each other among the students and staff alike.

We also incidentally told one who was desperately trying to struggle through lectures while obviously feeling awful to bloody sod off home and go to bed! (We threatened not to come to the second session of the day we had with her as she was defiantly trying to push onward for the sake of us)

[SueEllenMishke]

And both of those complaints included a reference to the amount they were paying in tuition fees which is common now.

[SueEllenMishke]

@notevenat20

This is a patently ridiculous and pretty ill-informed statement. No university can afford to ignore student feedback.

I am not sure it is false. Universities are very large bureaucracies and often dysfunctional in various regards. I know RG unis like this and they are just not capable of making sensible medium term decisions based on feedback from students. It's not deliberately malicious but the effect can look that way.

It also very much depends on what the student feedback is......

Consistently low NSS scores should be addressed. Not to do so isn't good management but obviously changes take time.

We have a three strikes rule which is sensible as occasionally you do have blips and negative feedback can sometimes have nothing to do with the quality of the course.

I've had two official complaints made against me in the last 18 months. One was a student complaining that her mark changed during the moderation process ( it went up!)... she took it all the way to the VC. Another was because I didn't respond to emails when I was off sick. That resulted in a student harassing me to the point I needed a security escort to the car park!

[ListeningQuietly]

The VLE is only useful for students with a login.
Kids who are still going through clearing / adjustment / Wilkinson omnishambles
do not have access to the VLE as they do not have accepted confirmed offers
that is why they need public website information
to make their final decisions

Some Universities can see that they need to provide a service
others do not

[mrpumblechook]

@Newgirls

I can assure you dd has been reading the uni emails and it’s all about masks, social distancing, no clubs other than online etc and pretty depressing reading

No news on whether any of her course will be live, though she has a meeting soon and will ask.

3 days and be counting!

I am glad to hear others are better though depressing to hear blame shifted onto fresher students?

She will be able to socialise with the people she is living without socially distancing from them (they will count as a household) though so hopefully it will be okay.

[Newgirls]

I can well imagine. It’s why I think some so far better with face to face. Though am sure plenty don’t read it all.

She has emailed and rang so let’s hope it becomes clearer.

[SueEllenMishke]

@Newgirls

I can assure you dd has been reading the uni emails and it’s all about masks, social distancing, no clubs other than online etc and pretty depressing reading

No news on whether any of her course will be live, though she has a meeting soon and will ask.

3 days and be counting!

I am glad to hear others are better though depressing to hear blame shifted onto fresher students?

Nobody is shifting blame onto freshers. They absolutely should have been told what is happening by now and if I were your DD I would raise this as an issue ASAP. It is unacceptable.

However, I do find that students don't read emails, student handbooks, announcements on the VLE etc and will email me about something that could have easier been found elsewhere or has already been communicated to them. It happens all the time ....and I run PG courses where all the students are supposedly fully functioning adults (and often working in professional jobs). It is THE most frustrating element of my job and that's no exaggeration.

[Newgirls]

I can assure you dd has been reading the uni emails and it’s all about masks, social distancing, no clubs other than online etc and pretty depressing reading

No news on whether any of her course will be live, though she has a meeting soon and will ask.

3 days and be counting!

I am glad to hear others are better though depressing to hear blame shifted onto fresher students?

[notevenat20]

This is a patently ridiculous and pretty ill-informed statement. No university can afford to ignore student feedback.

I am not sure it is false. Universities are very large bureaucracies and often dysfunctional in various regards. I know RG unis like this and they are just not capable of making sensible medium term decisions based on feedback from students. It's not deliberately malicious but the effect can look that way.

[SueEllenMishke]

Same here italianhat. I even posted the information on the course pages of our VLE and asked the course rep to post on the Facebook group ....

[ItalianHat]

Well I’ve been spending quite a bit of my delayed annual leave answering my personal tutees’ emails about our arrangements for the coming term.

I gently mention that all the questions they ask me individually are covered in a series of three comprehensive emails with accompanying downloadable document from our Director of Studies.

Several of them have at least apologised, saying they never read their university emails.

[SueEllenMishke]

@Newgirls

I get that about the cma and rules - sounds hideous. But some of these kids are starting next week.

I would be contacting them directly then. There is no reason to leave it that late .... if they couldn't be ready then they should have delayed the start of term.
We don't start for 3 weeks and our timetable will be released on Monday and all our campus info has already been sent.

[Newgirls]

I get that about the cma and rules - sounds hideous. But some of these kids are starting next week.

[SueEllenMishke]

I think that they are probably waiting for all the government guidance to be finalised. They don't want to give out information that then has to be changed.

This.

Universities have to be really careful and have to ensure they are CMA compliant. If we promise something and don't deliver we get sued.....it happens

[mrpumblechook]

@Newgirls

Last minutes changes - more students, not knowing how many students, less accom, new covid rules etc are a nightmare without doubt.

Yet this is about 18 year olds leaving home after a rollercoaster few months/weeks. I am worried about their mental health. Some will be fine if course and love it all anyway, but let’s be honest, some will struggle, more than usual. More comms rather than less would be helpful from the unis. And not of the scary dining video type! Eg what clubs CAN you do? What’s the solutions for indoor socialising? Or perhaps be honest and say - for tie course you can be at home if you prefer and we will give you the chance to hold your room. Something for the students?

I think that they are probably waiting for all the government guidance to be finalised. They don't want to give out information that then has to be changed. Regardless of what is finally decided they will be able to socialise with their "house" (or corridor) as they will count as a household.