Think the focus should shift to university

[CKBJ]

I am still concerned for my children to return to school, not because I think they will become unwell but the risk of Covid entering our house where vulnerable grandparents live with us and for the teaching staff who seem to have little protection. However, not much is being said about universities opening in a few weeks and the new focus should be this.

Many, many students will be moving into halls of residence and student houses bringing together students from all over the country. Independent sage has been arguing for all courses unless they require lab/practical elements to be offered online and remotely. This won’t suit all students but does give them an option and possibly reduce the amount of students moving around the country. Fees should be reduced accordingly. As the majority of students use a student loan to pay fees, they should only be responsible for paying for say 3/4s back and the 1/4 is covered by the government therefore meaning the university doesn’t lose any funding. The government seems to find money for many other things.

I was just considering the education side but obviously there is the whole social side as well. Many cities will have an influx of students into their pubs and bars. This could put a lot of pressure on the local areas increasing the possibility of transmission.

It seems nearly every year there are outbreaks of Meningitis and other illnesses that seem to occur when students all gather together. These aren’t going away, they will still be a risk and the added risk will be Covid.

I’m grateful I my children are not heading off to university this year but do feel for those who are and their families. Anyone else have any thoughts?

Dd2 is on campus in Scotland and I feel they’re pretty prepared.
Scotland has had tighter restrictions and campus means although students are still piling in, its less mixing within the General community.
Dd2 is cautious too so hopefully she won’t be involved in any big parties etc.

@avenueq

If schools can do face to face then so can universities

I'm desperate to teach face to face. I've changed my entire course to blended learning and have planned all face to face sessions and online sessions up until Christmas.

I will be gutted if this gets changed

Interesting article on the BBC

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53947488

International students are still arriving, they have to isolate for 2 weeks, who knows if they will. Accommodation has already been paid for so students will still go to the university city and will be going out socialising, whether in lectures or not.

DS is staying here for his first semester as it's all online. He's gutted really, he was so looking forward to getting back and getting stuck in to his final year but there's no point him paying rent up there to sit in his room when he can live here.

Hoping things will be ok in January as he needs to be in labs.

What arrangements are in place to care for students quarantined or self isolating or even ill with Covid either in halls, or perhaps more worrying, private off campus accommodation? Will student medical services be able to cope? Obviously they won't have family to look after them so who will supply food, keep an eye on them?

@GCAcademic

Very few universities have said teaching will all (or mainly) be online. It’s interesting that the ones who have said this seem to be London-based, where income from accommodation is arguably not so important to their finances as it is for campus-based universities, and even so they could probably sell that accommodation several times over due to demand.

Midlands. All large-scale lectures online and pre-recorded, workshops and seminars online but timetabled... absolute bare minimum of practical sessions face-to-face with distancing and masks (I'm exempt from wearing a mask - god knows I've tried and tried and made myself ill with it - still trying to get clarification from the uni on what happens to people like me). Library is click and collect like you're getting a toaster from Argos.

I'm 50/50 on if I'm going to continue or drop out. School have pulled their wrap around care with 4 days notice so it's veering more in the direction of just giving up as the days go on. Shame since I didn't get below a first all year.

I have a DC going into their second year. The uni reopens in October but all her year have signed and paid money for student houses with private landlords some time ago. Most contracts start from the beginning of September.

Whether there is online teaching or not, all the year 2 students are heading off to their student accommodation as soon as it becomes available as they are all fed up of being home with parents.

We live in London and TBH there has been zero social distancing between young people in bars and restaurants for some time. It will not be any different at uni and the on campus students will just go to off campus parties. I don't see any easy fix for that because there is so much frustration amongst that age group about being abruptly yanked out of adulthood into being kids at home again.

I have 4 kids but 2 2nd years still at uni.
One going into a house share of 6 (knows 5.of the occupants from 1st year )and the other into private halls in a flat share of 6, Ds and his 2 mates plus 3 strangers.

I'm all.for them going back. Being am stuck at home with minimal.social.lofe for almost 6 months isn't healthy.

I.do have some concerns and reservations but try and think of it as creating their new bubbles. My dd said her and her mate discussed if they should hug each other when they go back next week as they are close friends and not seen each other since March. I said Yes of course. They will be sharing a bathroom and tiny kitchenette living area in their flat. They are on the same course which is being taught 50/50 online and on-site as some of it is practical. They will get on the same bus to get to uni. They will probably socialise together as well. They will become each other's new family/bubble.

My concern is.more what happening with foreign students from countries that require them to quarantine for 14 days. I've been told about such students arriving and expecting to do thiercquatantine in their uni halls and shared flats. Using shared bathrooms and shared kitchens.
But then they are becoming part of that new bubble.
It gets messy and confusing.
My first child to go to uni (now left) was in Halls at NTU with 25. It did have 2 kitchens but I do wonder how huge flats like that will manage with social distancing and bubbles. My other son was at Birmingham in a flat if 12 with 3 bathrooms but 1 kitchen as well. It's is full on proper communal living and how that goes hand in hand with Corona we'll have to see.

As a lecturer I am a bit worried. I will be teaching face to face every week, we’ll be wearing masks but we will be unable to socially distance at all times due to the nature of the course.

So if one of my students who I’ve been face to face with subsequently comes down with symptoms do I need to self isolate until they get swab results back or is it only if they test positive. Because I’m worried I might need to self isolate every week!

My university has also done a lot of training to teach online. It’s not the case that you can simply shove all face to face teaching online. A lot of preparation has been done over summer. In my discipline (history), I really do think that online teaching will be better than trying to teach in person with 2m distancing.

First years and taught PG students are getting priority for face-to-face teaching, but students will have the option of being taught online. I’m that situation, lecturers will have to teach the module in two ways.

Current students have been judged to be more capable of dealing with a semester online.

@avenueq

If schools can do face to face then so can universities

Schools don't have 400 kids all sat 3 inches apart in a windowless lecture theatre.

Funnily enough school teaching is nothing like university teaching. Wish people would realise that...

Unlike some universities, teaching staff at my university are being given the choice of teaching online or in person. They absolutely would not force staff who are at increased risk to teach in person.

I'll be pissed off if our online offering is just lecture recordings from 2 years ago bunged online to be honest. That was fine for the last bit of the year when Covid hit last minute - but we've been assured it won't be (I suspect one lecturer will try it on though).

I just giggle at one of them who has eagerly tried to get to grips with the technology but who is not the most techie in the world (she rings IT helpdesk to come turn on the computer if it's not on bless her - we love her to bits!) and has now started doing all her powerpoints for online with a slide reminding her to press the start recording button! (We adore her and she's really given it her all!)

Absolutely. My daughter’s school has 1000 students. My university has 15 000 students and 2000 members of staff. .

Not expecting large lectures to be ftf but small groups yes. Why not?
And yes 15000 students but they are separate in subject areas.

@avenueq

Not expecting large lectures to be ftf but small groups yes. Why not? And yes 15000 students but they are separate in subject areas.

A lot will have small group teaching face to face - we're giving our staff and students the choice. Lectures online, followed by group seminars. Several staff (lectures, tutors, grad assistants) saying whether they'll do online or face to face, and students selecting whether they want to be put into a face to face or online group. (Central London uni with a lot of students who live at home and may have concerns about using buses and tubes.)

A lot of research emerging suggests that social distancing is key. Indeed, Erin Bromage was saying as much in April (his blog is excellent and he’s an epidemiologist I think).

Small group teaching and social distancing do not go hand inhand. That’s why I’ve chosen to teach my specialist seminar online. The students will have several intense sessions a week in very small groups of 4 to 6 students. It will be very high quality.

I have practical sessions in term 2 but I’m hoping we’ll know where we are in terms of student behaviour and transmission to vulnerable staff.

The big difference between schools and universities is what parents here are saying. Their DC have not been following good practice in social distancing. That’s fine, that’s their choice and their risk.

My choice is not to take their risk.

Yes I do expect the tutorials will be better managed than last summer's ones .
Groups of 15 don't really work, too many people so no one really gets to speak (or a load of people just do not speak:video off and a small group of 2-3 do all the speaking)
4-6 works much better, and those tutors who put us into small groups of 3 to discuss a problem question then cone back into main group after 15 mins were the best (this was more revision though and my group is mostly full of existing graduates so we are all keen)
Or would be nice to know what they plan to do but nothing yet. University in theory starts in 2 or 3 weeks.

I feel pretty sure that attention will now shift to the universities. People have tried (and hopefully failed) to prevent schools and FE colleges reopening in England this week (mind you there is still time); having failed to do that, they'll now start on the universities.

Older people call younger people "snowflakes" disparagingly. I am sure our parents and grandparents who lived with polio and TB will think the younger generation are being a bunch of snowflakes over this.

It is still quite likely that a vaccine will never happen or at least take quite a long time to come to fruition. Education has to be a priority. Kids need to get back to school and college and university.

Our university is releasing timetables w/c 7th September.
It's huge job in normal years but this year has been a logistical nightmare so it is taking a little longer than usual.

How will the blanket 1 (or 2) pupil(s) with a positive test leading to all 200 pupils in a school year group having to stay home for 2 weeks be applied to universities?

I think this blanket advice is already wrong for sixth forms where many pupils will never be inside a classroom with another set of pupils (for example, one pupil might do maths, physics and chemistry and will never be in close proximity for 15 minutes or longer with another pupil studying english, french and history from a different tutor group).

Sixth forms require a local response in my view, which is probably what universities will be told to do also.

Just talking to a friend who is a son at an Oxbridge college and the logistics are a nightmare as they have practically taken everyone who 'achieved' the required grades and accommodation is a big issue.

a don

Dd1 is going into third year this year and has been to and fro from her house share. Someone in her house has been ill with a d&v bug this week so dh is insisting on a Covid test before she comes home. When myself and dd2 visited her a couple of weeks ago dd2 spiked a very high temp, so we both had a Clovid test.
To be fair DH is 67 with asthma and a racial background that increases the risk so frequent testing is going to be necessary.
This is the only way that things are going to work. I don't think we can keep students at home the whole year but we have to think of ways of doing it safely.
I'm really not entirely sure how Freshers are going to work. The initial year can be very lonely and isolating for some. If you're sick who will look after you? It requires a certain level of maturity to band together and keep a lookout for anything askance.

How will the blanket 1 (or 2) pupil(s) with a positive test leading to all 200 pupils in a school year group having to stay home for 2 weeks be applied to universities?

That advice for schools lasted for all of 3 hours on Friday night before the DfE removed the paragraph!