Think the focus should shift to university

[CKBJ]

I am still concerned for my children to return to school, not because I think they will become unwell but the risk of Covid entering our house where vulnerable grandparents live with us and for the teaching staff who seem to have little protection. However, not much is being said about universities opening in a few weeks and the new focus should be this.

Many, many students will be moving into halls of residence and student houses bringing together students from all over the country. Independent sage has been arguing for all courses unless they require lab/practical elements to be offered online and remotely. This won’t suit all students but does give them an option and possibly reduce the amount of students moving around the country. Fees should be reduced accordingly. As the majority of students use a student loan to pay fees, they should only be responsible for paying for say 3/4s back and the 1/4 is covered by the government therefore meaning the university doesn’t lose any funding. The government seems to find money for many other things.

I was just considering the education side but obviously there is the whole social side as well. Many cities will have an influx of students into their pubs and bars. This could put a lot of pressure on the local areas increasing the possibility of transmission.

It seems nearly every year there are outbreaks of Meningitis and other illnesses that seem to occur when students all gather together. These aren’t going away, they will still be a risk and the added risk will be Covid.

I’m grateful I my children are not heading off to university this year but do feel for those who are and their families. Anyone else have any thoughts?

Flamingo, well that's two uni areas in the country with similar local demographics!

It would be a massive injustice to the young people of this country if universities and schools had to close after months of pubs, restaurants, gyms, foreign holidays, flights etc. That would really demonstrate how low down on the government's priority list education is (because it does not generate revenue for the government and is not a strong tory support base).
I would be devastated if after all the people flying in and out of this country on non-essential business, the eat-out-to-help-out scheme, the strenuous message that everyone should be back in their offices, after all that they government decided that schools and universities should close.
The government even cleared casinos to re-open last week.
If movement of people was such an issue, why is the government and SAGE totally OK with all the holiday traffic within the UK and with multiple countries around the world?

Couldn't agree more @Jamdemic

I understand why we need to return to education but the government and media toeing the line of “children won’t spread anything and teachers are much safer than other key workers” is laughable. It’s all lies to get everyone back in work and the economy going again. It’s the same with the universities. I’m a microbiology lecturer at a university and even though we have member of our department advising SAGE with regards to safely reopening public spaces including gyms and even though we have members of the department who worked in infection control in PHE- we are repeatedly getting ignored when we flag the risks. Social distancing between desks keeps decreasing to fit more in the classroom, circumstances where students can remove masks keep getting introduced. It’s all just business.

Plus it's not just about deaths, it's about the potential for serious illness and infecting others

And long term side-effects. These are sounding quite nasty.

Totally agree @Jamdemic and @Zippy1510

If the government had tried harder to keep virus levels as low as they were in June instead of reopening a lot of the economy that has increased virus levels and transmission and spread of the virus around the country, we wouldn't have to be contemplating jeopardising our young people's education.
All the more upsetting because a lot of the sections of the economy that the government has prioritised over education are bad for health and bad for the environment

If ISAGE really want students to stay at home for a term or so, this affects the maintenance loan. Carnage at the SFE.

@Jamdemic absolutely. I feel very sad that my children’s education hangs in the balance once again as a result of the idiots in charge of this country. We had a day out on the south coast last week and every second person had a Manchester accent - apparently those in lockdown areas were still allowed to go on holiday! Which just seems absurd. But it’s just another in a long line of absurd things really.

My DC understood that staying at home from March onwards and having his life severely restricted would be worth it. He and all the other young people have been let down and betrayed.
The government let pubs reopen before schools and universities, decided flights and holidays in Spain and France were more important than schools and universities. Even casinos are open before schools and universities.
It is too late now for the government to close things down: as they are seeing in France, once you reopen to this extent the floodgates have been opened - and all before our young people could restart their education.

@NeurotrashWarrior doesn’t surprise me - universities are often in leafy areas with nice housing, and some large victorians for student lets.

Also mature student here (not far off 50!) and my first term (2nd year) will be entirely online.
Don't mind the lectures but the online tutorials we had last year were pretty woefu l in some cases, no chances to really get a discussion going. Maybe more online written forums will help? Or us students create our own groups more.
Will have to see what happens term 2, I don't mind going in if classes happen but as I live other side of London, it's the commute I am not keen on -fine if it's 11am, not if I have to be there at rush hour!
Then again didn't have anything before 12pm last year!

burnoutbabe - I would hope (and anticipate) that any online teaching this year will be vastly improved from what took place in the summer term, when lecturers had a matter of days to move their modules online, using platforms they’d never even heard off before. There’s been lots of investment in technology, and training in online pedagogy taking place over these last few months.

The government have let the young people down by not prioritising education and the exam fiasco. Opening pubs before schools says it all. I hope this is not the case going forward but not convinced.

If courses are going to be mainly (or all) taught online then essentially students wouldnt need to leave home.
I understand universities needing income but as a parent I'd find it pretty galling to pay for student accomodation and catering when my DC was studying online which they could do at home.

Very few universities have said teaching will all (or mainly) be online. It’s interesting that the ones who have said this seem to be London-based, where income from accommodation is arguably not so important to their finances as it is for campus-based universities, and even so they could probably sell that accommodation several times over due to demand.

@DoctorDoctor

disease was spreading widely - no deaths of lecturers *@lifeafter50* How do we know? Of the over 40,000 deaths in the UK who can say that none of these have been university staff? Plus it's not just about deaths, it's about the potential for serious illness and infecting others.

I can promise you that lecturers have died. One of my colleagues died the week of/before lock down.

I can't believe this whole discussion is happening now when the arrival of students is imminent, with plenty of second and third years already in their rented accommodation.
Universities have to open, there's no way around it.

As the majority of students use a student loan to pay fees, they should only be responsible for paying for say 3/4s back and the 1/4 is covered by the government therefore meaning the university doesn’t lose any funding. The government seems to find money for many other things.

This discussion has been had. The government made it clear they will not be bailing universities out financially.

Yes it is a worry. When I was at university my boyfriend (now DH) caught mumps!

It spread like wildfire and a whole class had caught it!!

I think they also had an outbreak of flu.

Unfortunately I’ll be spending a lot of time on campus from the 17th and I’m quite worried now

Universities will open. No one is saying that they won’t.

@burnoutbabe

Also mature student here (not far off 50!) and my first term (2nd year) will be entirely online. Don't mind the lectures but the online tutorials we had last year were pretty woefu l in some cases, no chances to really get a discussion going. Maybe more online written forums will help? Or us students create our own groups more. Will have to see what happens term 2, I don't mind going in if classes happen but as I live other side of London, it's the commute I am not keen on -fine if it's 11am, not if I have to be there at rush hour! Then again didn't have anything before 12pm last year!

It will be better. Universities had a matter of days to turn courses into online learning while supporting students, marking and often dealing with childcare/home learning.

Universities will open. They want students in halls so they won’t announce the level of suspension of face to face teaching until they get people on campus. There absolutely will still be outbreaks though it’s completely unavoidable.

I know I will spend most of the first hour of my online teaching in Week 1 discussing with students how we’ll proceed and how we can use Teams etc to give them a really intense learning experience.

If schools can do face to face then so can universities