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Original poster

Think the focus should shift to university

390 replies

CKBJ · 29/08/2020 20:30

I am still concerned for my children to return to school, not because I think they will become unwell but the risk of Covid entering our house where vulnerable grandparents live with us and for the teaching staff who seem to have little protection. However, not much is being said about universities opening in a few weeks and the new focus should be this.

Many, many students will be moving into halls of residence and student houses bringing together students from all over the country. Independent sage has been arguing for all courses unless they require lab/practical elements to be offered online and remotely. This won’t suit all students but does give them an option and possibly reduce the amount of students moving around the country. Fees should be reduced accordingly. As the majority of students use a student loan to pay fees, they should only be responsible for paying for say 3/4s back and the 1/4 is covered by the government therefore meaning the university doesn’t lose any funding. The government seems to find money for many other things.

I was just considering the education side but obviously there is the whole social side as well. Many cities will have an influx of students into their pubs and bars. This could put a lot of pressure on the local areas increasing the possibility of transmission.

It seems nearly every year there are outbreaks of Meningitis and other illnesses that seem to occur when students all gather together. These aren’t going away, they will still be a risk and the added risk will be Covid.

I’m grateful I my children are not heading off to university this year but do feel for those who are and their families. Anyone else have any thoughts?

OP posts:
jelly79 · 01/09/2020 22:46

Daughter is due to start uni 14th sept, will be moving in to student accommodation the weekend before. They have been told they will be online for weeks and mainly until Christmas. They will need to be in for clinical skills.

I am surprised that moving in is happening if predominantly online it these kids were the guinea pigs for change GCSE grading, A-Level / B-tech abomination and now a watered down uni start. I feel for them

GCAcademic · 02/09/2020 07:12

Interesting that there is such variation. I thought that most universities were conducting large lectures online. I don't see how it be feasible to do otherwise unless you have loads of spare lecture theatres.

Only about 5% of my teaching overall is large lectures. Most of it is small group seminars, so I’ll be doing very little online teaching. Yes, all large lectures will be online everywhere, as far as I’m aware.

GCAcademic · 02/09/2020 07:14

Actually, when I say I’ll be doing very little online teaching, that’s not true, as I will have to teach anyone who doesn’t want to return to campus in a separate online seminar. But the amount of f2f teaching I do is virtually unchanged.

JacobReesMogadishu · 02/09/2020 07:33

My f2f teaching has dropped off a Cliff. Students are only allowed 3 hours face to face a week. We’ve just been told it’s likely to remain that way for the whole academic year. I’m praying the vaccine works out and we’ll be ok to go back to normal in the new year but admit I’m being overly optimistic.

Wemayhavemetbefore · 02/09/2020 08:32

"We’ve just been told it’s likely to remain that way for the whole academic year."

It would be interesting to know if that's based on new scientific/government advice - or is it more to do with the admin complications of changing half way through? Also wonder if the students have been told this prediction - though as a dparent I would be advising any dstudent that they should proceed on the basis that that's likely to be the case anyway. I think online may be here to stay indefinitely, whatever happens about the virus, vaccines etc - but may be proved wrong!

notevenat20 · 02/09/2020 08:42

We have already been told the summer exams will be online.

Badbadbunny · 02/09/2020 10:43

We’ve just been told it’s likely to remain that way for the whole academic year.

Surely it has to be a full year though. Some students won't be moving into campus and will be studying fully remotely at home. That's a "year by year" thing as I don't think it's feasible to get a half or third year lease for accommodation on campus. Or perhaps the Unis are making a shorter lease term available for Jan to Jun to coincide with a return to face to face teaching? If they start doing more face to face in January, they'll have to do remote alongside for those not at Uni. It would surely be simpler just to carry on throughout the year the way they do until Christmas even if they theoretically could return to face to face in January.

DominaShantotto · 02/09/2020 11:30

@Wemayhavemetbefore

"We’ve just been told it’s likely to remain that way for the whole academic year."

It would be interesting to know if that's based on new scientific/government advice - or is it more to do with the admin complications of changing half way through? Also wonder if the students have been told this prediction - though as a dparent I would be advising any dstudent that they should proceed on the basis that that's likely to be the case anyway. I think online may be here to stay indefinitely, whatever happens about the virus, vaccines etc - but may be proved wrong!

We've been basically informally told - if timetabling has run for the year - they're not running it again - so blended/heavily online all the way.
JacobReesMogadishu · 02/09/2020 12:18

@Badbadbunny

We’ve just been told it’s likely to remain that way for the whole academic year.

Surely it has to be a full year though. Some students won't be moving into campus and will be studying fully remotely at home. That's a "year by year" thing as I don't think it's feasible to get a half or third year lease for accommodation on campus. Or perhaps the Unis are making a shorter lease term available for Jan to Jun to coincide with a return to face to face teaching? If they start doing more face to face in January, they'll have to do remote alongside for those not at Uni. It would surely be simpler just to carry on throughout the year the way they do until Christmas even if they theoretically could return to face to face in January.

No the current thing is they get 3 hrs of face to face a week....so they have to move to campus. Or possibly commute once a week I guess. But from the unis pov the expectation is that they move here in Oct as normal.
Monkey2001 · 02/09/2020 13:39

Just managed to get through this thread. Saddened by the "them and us" coming through. It seems inevitable that there will be a higher incidence in the student population, and clearly universities must do their best to protect staff who may be vulnerable. Students already have the option to defer or study remotely, academics do not choose, management decide for them. If I was a vulnerable academic/worked in a hall/ lived in a place with a lot of students I would want the university to limit my risk. With a DS starting at university this year I want his experience to be as close to normal as possible, but we recognise the need for compromise, particularly following the mess dumped on universities by the OFQUAL fiasco. I understand that the universities have had to do some rapid re-thinking to squeeze in extra students, which will have impacted their COVID plans.

Newgirls · 02/09/2020 15:28

That’s very true monkey but the prospect of students not getting any face to face and eating in rows seems stricter than elsewhere in uk. Some subjects can’t study well remotely - drama anyone? It’s all very inconsistent.

mrpumblechook · 02/09/2020 16:18

I haven't really noticed the "them and us" attitude. Many people in my family either work in the University or are students so I see both sides of the coin and I think overall we want the same thing. The online teaching and small class sizes is a lot of extra work so academics aren't keen for it to stay that way for any longer than it needs to.

mrpumblechook · 02/09/2020 16:21

@Newgirls

That’s very true monkey but the prospect of students not getting any face to face and eating in rows seems stricter than elsewhere in uk. Some subjects can’t study well remotely - drama anyone? It’s all very inconsistent.
Eating in rows? I haven't heard of that.
Newgirls · 02/09/2020 16:30

Edin uni have announced that for their halls. I really hope that doesn’t become the norm. It’s being discussed on another uni thread.

ListeningQuietly · 02/09/2020 16:34

One of my children moves into halls at the end of the month
the Uni have planned a full Freshers Week
and teaching will be face to face
well done them

Newgirls · 02/09/2020 16:37

Wow where’s that listening? All online for my dd.

ListeningQuietly · 02/09/2020 16:44

An RG in the North who have been planning for this since March
as EVERY University should have been.

It is disgraceful that Vice Chancellors on £400k a year do not have the strategic planning skills to recognise back in April that they had to look out for their own employees, students and towns.

I hope that when students are doing their satisfaction surveys over the coming years the ones that have communicated and handled it badly get clobbered.

SueEllenMishke · 02/09/2020 16:46

@ListeningQuietly

An RG in the North who have been planning for this since March as EVERY University should have been.

It is disgraceful that Vice Chancellors on £400k a year do not have the strategic planning skills to recognise back in April that they had to look out for their own employees, students and towns.

I hope that when students are doing their satisfaction surveys over the coming years the ones that have communicated and handled it badly get clobbered.

Erm ALL universities have been planning for this since March. What a ridiculous thing to say.
Monkey2001 · 02/09/2020 16:46

@mrpumblechook - here is the Edinburgh video which has shocked us on the other thread.

mrpumblechook · 02/09/2020 16:46

@Newgirls

Edin uni have announced that for their halls. I really hope that doesn’t become the norm. It’s being discussed on another uni thread.
Is that for halls that cater? Those that self cater would be sharing a kitchen and those that they share with would count as the same household.
mrpumblechook · 02/09/2020 16:49

Cross posted. I see that it applies if you eat in the restaurant. Unless they don't have a kitchen they can avoid eating there if they want to presumably..

ListeningQuietly · 02/09/2020 16:52

SueEllen
If all the Unis have been preparing, some of them have been atrocious at communicating exactly what they plan to do.

The one I will be delivering a child to has absolutely excellent welcome pages about the Uni, the halls, the courses.

Others I've been looking at have sod all to clarify WHAT kids will be getting for their tuition fees

and after last term with 6 hours of tuition for £3000 of loan
I'm not overly sympathetic to the SLTs of many institutions

SueEllenMishke · 02/09/2020 16:58

Have you or your daughter been an applicant/student/staff member at all universities in the UK? Most of our very detailed information has been sent directly to applicants, students and staff with some general information on the website.

Of course universities have been planning for the new term since March - it's a huge bloody job. So much of what university staff do is invisible to the general public so don't assume that nothing is being done.

ListeningQuietly · 02/09/2020 17:04

So much of what university staff do is invisible to the general public so don't assume that nothing is being done.
I don't
But the Universities with which I'm familiar (through work, children, colleagues, children's friends etc) have been incredibly variable in the advice and support given to current and prospective students and their families.

Many of the VCs and SLTs are not worth the money they are paid
and hopefully will get shaken down over the coming years.

SueEllenMishke · 02/09/2020 17:12

Universities are always going to vary in quality in all aspects of what they do but to assume that some universities haven't bothered to do any planning is a really ridiculous comment to make.

Putting out comms promising things to students when it's not been finalized is really dangerous territory due to CMA requirements. The work involved if things change is ridiculous and time consuming so some universities have had to keep things vague until they knew exactly what was happening - and just as we thought we had it sorted the A level fiasco happened and the government moved the goal posts yet again by removing the cap on student numbers.

The animosity and vitriol aimed at university staff on MN is depressing.

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