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Original poster

Think the focus should shift to university

390 replies

CKBJ · 29/08/2020 20:30

I am still concerned for my children to return to school, not because I think they will become unwell but the risk of Covid entering our house where vulnerable grandparents live with us and for the teaching staff who seem to have little protection. However, not much is being said about universities opening in a few weeks and the new focus should be this.

Many, many students will be moving into halls of residence and student houses bringing together students from all over the country. Independent sage has been arguing for all courses unless they require lab/practical elements to be offered online and remotely. This won’t suit all students but does give them an option and possibly reduce the amount of students moving around the country. Fees should be reduced accordingly. As the majority of students use a student loan to pay fees, they should only be responsible for paying for say 3/4s back and the 1/4 is covered by the government therefore meaning the university doesn’t lose any funding. The government seems to find money for many other things.

I was just considering the education side but obviously there is the whole social side as well. Many cities will have an influx of students into their pubs and bars. This could put a lot of pressure on the local areas increasing the possibility of transmission.

It seems nearly every year there are outbreaks of Meningitis and other illnesses that seem to occur when students all gather together. These aren’t going away, they will still be a risk and the added risk will be Covid.

I’m grateful I my children are not heading off to university this year but do feel for those who are and their families. Anyone else have any thoughts?

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 01/09/2020 11:02

Mine hasn't and he is also not first year. Their term doesn't start til October. But , older students aside, there are a LOT of first years.

You are determined not to see an issue. Sage ages ago identified university students as potentially problematic because of their very high levels of social interactions. It isn't just ISage

avenueq · 01/09/2020 11:09

It's not not an issue but not opening campusses and not doing f2f is not the solution

mrpumblechook · 01/09/2020 11:09

@Piggywaspushed

Mine hasn't and he is also not first year. Their term doesn't start til October. But , older students aside, there are a LOT of first years.

You are determined not to see an issue. Sage ages ago identified university students as potentially problematic because of their very high levels of social interactions. It isn't just ISage

The fact that your DC hasn't gone back yet doesn't mean that a large proportion of those that are not in the first year haven't gone back. A huge number have. There may be some transmission among first years but due to online lectures and limited face to face sessions this term I don't think that there will be much transmission into the wider community. I haven't said that it is not an issue at all but the risk is much lower than it will be for schools.
titchy · 01/09/2020 11:14

So we've gone from:
'universities now routinely reject UK students in favour of higher paying overseas students.'

to:
'What I actually know is that it is completely standard in at least one Russell group uni' (and given that every RG other thanOx and Cam have been in clearing it clearly doesn't apply to all courses at that one place either).

You'd fit in well at the DfE given the speed of your u-turns Grin

Wemayhavemetbefore · 01/09/2020 11:27

Did anyone hear one of the Vice Chancellors on radio yesterday morning - I didn't hear it but read that s/he was talking about the importance of having the campuses open. It would be interesting to know what was said.

notevenat20 · 01/09/2020 11:48

@titchy I don't really understand why you are talking about courses that are not oversubscribed in this conversation.

I would now love to know if some non Oxbridge Russell group unis don't have this policy.

titchy · 01/09/2020 12:02

[quote notevenat20]@titchy I don't really understand why you are talking about courses that are not oversubscribed in this conversation.

I would now love to know if some non Oxbridge Russell group unis don't have this policy.[/quote]
Because your original assertion implied that the policy of declining home applicants in favour of overseas applicants was common throughout the sector.

This is patently untrue. Very very very few courses have such a policy, most RGs don't have this as a policy, even on their most popular courses. I am not sure which university or course you are even talking about (do you even work in the sector?), but you are wrong if you think this is common.

ItalianHat · 01/09/2020 12:15

I'm at a Russell Gp university (and have previously worked at two other major RG universities). At UG level we have Home quotas/ targets (depending on which side of the bed the Minister decided to get out of & what brainwave he had that day). And we have financial plans based on a desirable number of International students, but these are in addition to our HOME/EU targets.

And I've not seen any other practice at any place I've worked at.

I'm intrigued about your claims to expertise @notevenat20 - do you teach in HASS or STEM? And for how long? Have you actually ever done any QAA or other kinds of reviewing?

notevenat20 · 01/09/2020 12:18

And I've not seen any other practice at any place I've worked at.

Are you involved in setting those quotas? There is a total capacity for the number of students and those two numbers when added together should ideally not go over that capacity. So if you want to increase one, you have to decrease the other.

cologne4711 · 01/09/2020 12:32

they do pose risks to wider society unless they mitigate their social behaviours a great deal

When I was at uni I had little or no contact with the "outside world". Ok I went to shops but they'll be wearing masks for that. Other than that, who are they going to infect? Presumably they won't be going and breathing over vulnerable family members deliberately!

We cannot damage our young peoples' education anymore! They're already screwed over by Brexit and then the covid dementors seem to think it's fine for them to stay locked up in their bedrooms for the foreseeable futures.

mrpumblechook · 01/09/2020 12:39

When I was at uni I had little or no contact with the "outside world". Ok I went to shops but they'll be wearing masks for that. Other than that, who are they going to infect? Presumably they won't be going and breathing over vulnerable family members deliberately!

Same here. I think it very common for students living away from home to just mix with their peers and have very little contact with the "outside world" beyond trips to shops where they will be wearing facemasks. Many have been back for weeks now anyway.

notevenat20 · 01/09/2020 12:46

And for how long?

20 years.

SueEllenMishke · 01/09/2020 12:47

There is a total capacity for the number of students and those two numbers when added together should ideally not go over that capacity. So if you want to increase one, you have to decrease the other.

These numbers are now hugely flexible and have been since the removal of SNC. This is only an issue for courses with external quotas.

In normal years where SD isn't a consideration universities will find spaces for students. There aren't huge numbers of home students missing out on places due to international students believe me.

SnuggyBuggy · 01/09/2020 12:48

Same, I didn't have a lot of contact with the outside world as a student. Might be different if it's not a campus based uni.

SueEllenMishke · 01/09/2020 12:50

Might be different if it's not a campus based uni.

Or a university with large numbers of commuter students....

SnuggyBuggy · 01/09/2020 12:54

Do commuter students go out and socialise much with everyone else? I would have thought it would be tricky if you have to catch the last bus or train home.

SueEllenMishke · 01/09/2020 13:01

Yes they sometimes do. It depends on their circumstances obviously but they may live relatively close to the university. So they are mixing at uni in lectures, socially and back at home.

Badbadbunny · 01/09/2020 13:02

@avenueq

It's not not an issue but not opening campusses and not doing f2f is not the solution
So, we have 12 pages of people repeating the problems, but no one suggesting a realistic solution.
Badbadbunny · 01/09/2020 13:06

@mrpumblechook

When I was at uni I had little or no contact with the "outside world". Ok I went to shops but they'll be wearing masks for that. Other than that, who are they going to infect? Presumably they won't be going and breathing over vulnerable family members deliberately!

Same here. I think it very common for students living away from home to just mix with their peers and have very little contact with the "outside world" beyond trips to shops where they will be wearing facemasks. Many have been back for weeks now anyway.

Indeed, the bigger problem will be when students return home for, say, Christmas, as if they're infected, they'll bring it back to their family, some of whom may be vulnerable.

Our son is going to Uni at the end of Sept. He knows he won't be coming home for weekends etc, and will be "isolated" in his room for 2 weeks when he comes home at start of December. OH is extremely clinically vulnerable, so I'll be keeping them well apart when DS comes home. We've also seriously considered getting a caravan in the drive so he can properly isolate when he returns for a couple of weeks before coming into the house - yes, we're serious. OH has cancer so we're not taking any chances.

SnuggyBuggy · 01/09/2020 13:07

Is it really worth him coming home if he has to spend half of the holidays isolating?

SueEllenMishke · 01/09/2020 13:20

So, we have 12 pages of people repeating the problems, but no one suggesting a realistic solution.

Is there a solution? I'll be back on campus in two weeks teaching face to face. I've planned for that and that's what my students expect 🤷🏼‍♀️

mrpumblechook · 01/09/2020 13:21

@SueEllenMishke

Might be different if it's not a campus based uni.

Or a university with large numbers of commuter students....

Commuter students aren't going to be on campus much anyway though as lectures are online. They will only be there for a very limited number of tutorials or labs for which there will be much better social distancing than that can be achieved in schools. The spread will be in halls of residence but as that will be a young low risk population who will not interact much with the wider community I don't think it's a huge issue.
titchy · 01/09/2020 13:30

@SnuggyBuggy

Is it really worth him coming home if he has to spend half of the holidays isolating?
HmmWhat do you suggest - kid spends his first Christmas alone in his halls?
mrpumblechook · 01/09/2020 13:30

Indeed, the bigger problem will be when students return home for, say, Christmas, as if they're infected, they'll bring it back to their family, some of whom may be vulnerable.

I agree. I'm quite vulnerable too. My plan is for DD to get tested before she comes home at Christmas and I will keep my distance for the first two weeks she is here. I may pay for her to have an antibody test too.

SnuggyBuggy · 01/09/2020 13:31

Christmas with friends might be more fun than alone in his room for 2 weeks.

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