Surely shops aren't allowed to do this?

[AntFarm]

Our local post office/store has got a sign up outside stating that everyone entering must wear a mask and that exempt people must show proof of exemption before entering. It then goes on to list proof of exemption as :

A doctor's note on headed paper
Exemption letter from DWP
Hidden disabilities exemption card

If you cannot wear a mask and do not have any of these then you are not allowed to enter. They have, so generously, said that children under the age of 11 do not need to show proof.

I am not exempt, neither is anyone in my family, and we all happily wear masks no problem. It just doesn't seem right or fair that someone should have to show medical or personal documents to someone in a shop!

@Pluckedpencil

Only in Britain is this a thing. Meanwhile, the rest of Europe just wear a mask to go in shops. I can't get worked up about it.

I didn’t see anyone in France not wearing a mask (except small children) In fact, I even saw an elderly lady doing her shopping (slowly) with her oxygen therapy running put her mask on as she entered the supermarket. The signs were very clear and there were no exceptions. If you tried to enter a shop without a mask and/or using the sanitiser then you weren’t allowed in.

People WOULD wear masks in the U.K. if staff were allowed to insist on it but then the staff here don’t have to wear them either - in France they do.

That’s a misrepresentation of the situation. People are fighting for people who can’t wear masks to be able to do so in peace.

And at the same time, thye re also fighting for the right of many, many individuals who just dont care about others, cant be arsed etc... to carry on putting others in danger at the same time. Putting the very people who problably will be more affected by said virus at risk.
I still cant understand the logic there.

Plus of course, the fight is (unsurprisingly) only on one issue masks. The thing that actually bother everyone and a lot of people would love to escape from.
This week I tried to go and so some shopping. Long queues at different shops due to restrctions in number in the shop. Clarks, Primark and the like. I, like many oher people with mibility ossues, cant stand for very long. I am still expected to queue for 15mins before even starting shopping. Which means I am not shopping because I cant physically do it. I havent seen anyone fighting for the right to go in front of the queue because my own special need... Despiute the fact its an issue that has affected many people with disabilities since the start of this pandemic.
Why is that? Why fighting for thers when its about fighting for mask but no one is fighting to shorter queues for others that are just as affected. What is making 'people' feel so involve? Oh yes I know .... self interest.

I agree @CouldBeOuting. Same experience here.

The 'wanting to support other who cant wear a smask and leave them in peace' is just a disguised self interest to get away with not wearing one.
The number of people doing so in the UK is too high for them all not been able to wear one. Not when Ive seen people who really would fall in the category of struggling (very severe asthma, breathing issues of all sorts, etc etc) actually wear one.

The 'wanting to support other who cant wear a smask and leave them in peace' is just a disguised self interest to get away with not wearing one.

Utterly wrong.

I havd worn a mask everywhere that I am required to.

@PurpleDaisies

I'm not sure why people who are vulnerable and would die if they got this thing are fighting so hard for the rights of everyone to not wear masks.

That’s a misrepresentation of the situation. People are fighting for people who can’t wear masks to be able to do so in peace.

It's not a misrepresentation- it's an outcome. No ability to ask people to wear masks = masks are optional. You are entirely relying on the honesty and goodwill of everyone to do the right thing.

Which as we have seen here doesn't exist, as people have a range of views including 'I'm just not fucking doing it' to 'masks don't work so why should I?' and then the good old chestnut 'no one else is so why should I?' Plus of course 'there's no Covid-19 here'.

I've never seen such a lack of common sense and logic in my life. The most at risk fighting for the right to be more at risk but not thinking that they are. If I was this at risk I would try every mask in the world to get one that I could wear and avoid non safe places like the plague.

Because the plague doctors did eventually realise it was airborne hence the fetching Venice carnival masks with the long beak (to stifle the smell with herbs too).

It's not a misrepresentation- it's an outcome. No ability to ask people to wear masks = masks are optional. You are entirely relying on the honesty and goodwill of everyone to do the right thing.

Who has said shops can’t ask people to put a mask on? I saw shops doing just that today and telling people to use the hand sanitiser as they were coming in. What shops can’t do is refuse entry to those that are exempt.

Which as we have seen here doesn't exist, as people have a range of views including 'I'm just not fucking doing it' to 'masks don't work so why should I?' and then the good old chestnut 'no one else is so why should I?' Plus of course 'there's no Covid-19 here'.

What, on this thread? As I’ve said, in my area compliance is easily over 90% although I know that’s not the same everywhere.

@PurpleDaisies

The 'wanting to support other who cant wear a smask and leave them in peace' is just a disguised self interest to get away with not wearing one.

Utterly wrong.

I havd worn a mask everywhere that I am required to.

Thats you. It doesnt mean that everyone does the same.

Who has said shops can’t ask people to put a mask on?

Most shops have said they wouldnt be insisting on them because they know they will be at the receiving end of abuse and they dont want to ave to deal with it constantly.
Just see the reaction of people on this thread (this is so unacceptable, people shouldnt have to disclose their health issue blabla) or in RL (people been punched, insulted etc...).
How do you think any shop can insist on people wearing a mask exactly?

You practically quoted my post @QuestionMarkNow

I really do not appreciate having selfish motives ascribed to me unjustly. You should apologise.

QuestionMarkNow face coverings are most definitely not the only issue. There are a few disability discrimination class actions going through now as a result of government, business and other orgs' responses to the pandemic.

If I remember correctly, queueing systems are one of the points being raised in a wider case about access to food. If this has affected you, you might want to consider complaining to the shop (copy in head office if it's a chain) and/or contact one of the disability rights organisations, e.g. Disability Rights UK or DPAC.

There are some good links here, it's mind-boggling the extent to which disabled people's human and equality rights have been ignored during the pandemic -

www.law.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-02-affront-dignity-inclusion-and-equality-coronavirus-and-impact-law-policy-practice

www.disabilitynewsservice.com/coronavirus-ehrc-pressed-to-launch-inquiry-into-17-breaches-of-rights-during-pandemic/

Interesting that now the law has been stated pretty clearly, we've now moved on to bad faith attacks on people who are pointing out what the rules actually are.

This thread just highlights to me that I might as well not try and rejoin society in any way post shielding until there is a vaccine. I just can't be doing with all the ableism, it was already exhausting before this and now even more so.

All of which annoys me like hell when I see a good friend of mine who is the highly vulnerable category because of some lungs issues (as in extremely severe lungs issues) and has no issue at all wearing one.

So because some people with severe lung issues can wear a mask then everyone can? I have tried. I have practiced. I have been outside with it. I have tried and tried. I have severe lung disease and the mask makes me feel like I am drowning. I already have shortness of breath and often pain on breathing, every breath can already be hard work and the mask exacerbates it until it is unbearable. I am willing to wear a mask but it seems I am unable. What am I supposed to do?

This 'she can do it so so can you' kind of thinking is rife in ableist language. You see it when people talk about benefit scroungers and how because one person with a certain condition is able to work then so should that other person. There is no room for nuance or thought for individual differences and it makes me so, so sad and to be honest so angry as well.

Solidarity, madhairday. Don't let the bastards grind you down.

"I would instead be petitioning the govt to set up a robust and easy to use system for the relatively small number of people who couldn't because the more people not doing it the greater the risk."

Why aren't YOU doing this? If you cared that much you would.

I've never seen such a lack of common sense and logic in my life.

Nor me.

So many people have become utterly, irrationally fixated on cloth face coverings as if they are the One True Thing that is going to solve this and keep us all safe. They're not. Face coverings can help reduce the risk of transmission in indoor situations where people are unable to stay 2 metres apart. They're a helpful extra tool, that's all.

Masks alone will not save us. We have to do all the other stuff as well. The people who have picked their nose and not washed their hands, or who have been to several parties in the last week, or who have been shagging around, or who have symptoms and have not ordered a test, or who have been told to isolate by test and trace but have gone out anyway ... all those people are still able to go in the shop or get on the bus because you can't see those things.

You can't dump all the responsibility for preventing infection onto the small number of people who cannot wear a mask because this massively disproportionately affects disabled people and the detriment to them is huge.

The government does not give a shit if your face covering is effective or completely useless. They just want you to look as if you're wearing one in the hope that it will increase consumer confidence. They are happy for you to just strap a bit of old sock to your face or a thin bandana, or to gently arrange a scarf over your nose and mouth. Until recently they had instructions on their website for making one out of a single layer of old t-shirt.

And the government is quite happy for you to walk through the shop to the cafe area and then take off your face covering and sit amongst strangers, eating, drinking and chatting for far longer than 15 minutes. And if you go on the right day, it's half price! (HURRY!!! OFFER ENDS SOON!!!)

"This 'she can do it so so can you' kind of thinking is rife in ableist language."

Well of course if one person can walk then everyone can walk. If one person can see then everyone can see. Really obvious ( to the really stupid).

@Madhairday, if you read correctly I’ve never said that because my friend can wear a mask with severe asthma then everyone can.

What I’m saying is that it’s not because you have asthma that you automatically can’t wear a mask.
What I’m saying is that there are miles too many people around who don’t wear a mask and I do not believe that all of them GENUINELY can’t wear one, when some of the people who we have been told probably can’t wear one actually can.

And I’m saying that, by allowing all of those to get away with it, we are putting those who really need protecting in danger. How can that ever be acceptable??

It’s nit an issue about being ableist (again if you read my posts you’ll see that I have mu own issue an have been in the receiving end of ableist situations myself)
I didn’t particularly appreciated to have to explain myself as to why I coudnt follow a ‘rule’ a supermarket. So I think I can have a pretty good idea on how those who can’t wear a mask would feel.
But I’m dammed of this means that those who just can’t be bothered can get away with it because if that and out other people in danger at the same time.

@Spikeyball

"I would instead be petitioning the govt to set up a robust and easy to use system for the relatively small number of people who couldn't because the more people not doing it the greater the risk."

Why aren't YOU doing this? If you cared that much you would.

Yes, quite. Crack the fuck on with that yourself if you think it ought to be a priority vodka. Meanwhile those who are exempt, vulnerable and so disappoint you with their actions can do things their way: no doubt if any of them have the slightest interest in your feelings on the matter, they'll let you know.

I'm not sure why people who are vulnerable and would die if they got this thing are fighting so hard for the rights of everyone to not wear masks. If I had a compromised immune system or respiratory system I would most certainly not be pushing for masks to be completely optional.

I don’t have anything that means I’d be particularly vulnerable or die If I get “this thing”.

I’m still exempt and don’t have to wear a mask and I will avail of that exemption that the law gives me.

Madhairday

I really hate this pitting of different groups against each other. It reminds me very much of the rhetoric during the 'austerity' years.

I would be happy never to encounter the word 'vulnerable' ever again, it's been completely weaponised.

Thank you, @PiataMaiNei and @LangClegsInSpace. Completely agree about the language of austerity being too similar and weaponised in all of this.

@QuestionMarkNow I was musing on a whole load of posts on this thread that were saying that because one person can manage it so should everyone else. The post I quoted appeared to be saying that too, I'm sorry if that was not the intention, but even if not a load of others were absolutely saying that. I certainly agree with you on those who just don't want to or can't be bothered or want to make a point.

@Spikeyball

I really hate this pitting of different groups against each other. It reminds me very much of the rhetoric during the 'austerity' years.

With this and BLM pitting people against each other it makes you wonder if there is a bigger agenda.

Some really disgusting attitudes towards disabled people here, and its attitudes like that that mean I'm more isolated than ever.

I'm autistic, with sensory processing disorder. I can't even wear a hat in winter, I live in shorts for 9 out of 12 months of the year. Wearing a mask hurts, it becomes the over-riding sensation, it is literally all I can think about when wearing it.

But....i also have an over-riding need to follow the rules, so i always try and wear. No amount of desensitisation has helped, less than a minute and the stimming starts. I can maybe last 5minutes if I rush around the supermarket. Haven't browsed since the rule came in.

I do have a lanyard, doesn't stop the comments and staring though. Apparently i don't look autistic, not sure what autistic looks like, but apparently not me.

I went to the zoo Thursday, wore the mask in indoor spaces. Thankfully, apart from 1 or 2, these took less than 5min to walk through. The other 2 I was pushing my ability to cope and almost ran out.

By the end if the day I couldnt cope with the mask anymore, was in complete sensory overload and just couldn't. So the last couple of jndoot areas I didn't wear it, instead I tried to keep my distance (which i would have done pre-covid, I have a heightened sense of personal space). Only trouble is no-one else was respecting the 2m rule. Couple of times I got crowded by family groups ironically tutting at my lack of mask. Ended up yet again rushing out instead of taking my turn to look at something.

@Willow2017

FWIW my local Waitrose announces over their paging system that customers must wear a face covering. They can't and won't go as far as asking for some kind of 'proof' as it doesn't exist.

The co-op safety one ends by saying something along the lines of "please remember some people are exempt from wearing mask and respect that."
It's the only placed have heard that.

I've heard it at Lidl and Sainsbury's too.

@LangClegsInSpace I read vulnerable as oppressed.