Risk to children ‘vanishingly small’

[TeddyIsaHe]

Great article in the Guardian that I hope will put some people’s minds at ease a little before the return to school.

The largest study of children and young people that has been conducted since the beginning of the covid crisis.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/28/vanishingly-small-risk-of-death-or-severe-illness-for-children-from-covid

BMJ study: www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3249

What about the risk to staff?

Oh, that’s right. No one gives a fuck.

I’m not saying all of us will die but there will be casualties from this decision.

Oh, that’s right. No one gives a fuck.

I mean, they do, that’s why there are 4784377 other threads a day about teachers.

@sunseekin

At the moment, but I have taught exponential growth many many times; there seems to be little mention of what schools might do to r, how they expect that risk to increase and any uncertainty surrounding asymptomatic transmission in classrooms.

It is what it is - numbers are low at the moment - I hope they stay that way and that safeguards in the classrooms are improved before numbers increase. If we all just nod, share positive articles and ignore potential risks we might walk blindly into a worse scenario.

I really don’t want to make anyone feel worse and if you have no choice about next week please step away from the internet. The risks are low now but the provision is not good enough so the risks could rapidly increase.

I think people are posting to those that are trying to make a choice - it’s wrong to pretend it’s all okay like the government and press. Nobody is posting to make people feel worse. My rants are purely motivated about making things better for those that need to go to school.

Ps if you want a positive thread, make the title “positive views about schools only - we have to go that week”. I would of course go away but I’m so irritated by the press - the government is even sponsoring positive articles in some papers. It’s just wrong. Everyone going to school deserves better.

Perfect post

@BikeTyson

Why so angry? You seem determined to ignore the risks to staff. Just because children are safe does not mean that staff are.

Are you willing to accept that some staff will be hospitalised and become severely ill and possibly die because they were sent back to school with minimal protections?

Secondary school students spread the virus just as effectively as adults. That is what the studies say. The healthy ones might not get very sick. But their teachers will. Cherry picking points about younger kids does not help your argument.

Idk how anyone could ignore the human cost unless you see staff as not human and worth throwing under a bus to save the government time and money.

You haven’t been blinded by science. You’ve been present with the science that fits the conclusions you want to draw.

Children are probably safe, adults are not. Since schools contain both they need to be secure enough for both.

They are not secure for adults and staff will become sick. That is what will close schools.

The critical thinking ability of many people is so terrible that they cannot see this terrible flaw in the plan. It only take ten staff off sick to close our school. We teeter on the edge every winter. What do you think is going to happen this winter?

That’s right! Schools will start to close and education will be intermittent. How could this be prevented? By using social distancing to protect staff.

But it costs money. So it won’t happen.

Schools will be closed again by November. What a shit plan.

What BelleSausage said.

@Alex50. And the same people patrol every Covid thread moaning, being negative and predicting worst case scenarios . Makes me very grateful that I don’t have any people as miserable as that in my life. Can you imagine how much joy they must suck out of everything.

Look, we are in a pandemic with a lying, self-seeking Government that seems to care very little for the education and welfare of children in state schools cf exam debacle.

It is great that there is some research suggesting that most children will be okay unless they have pre-existing conditions. Not entirely great for the kids who do have medical conditions and this does not take away other associated risks with kids returning to schools.

So people posting stuff like "back to school simples" are going to get an intelligent response.

Sorry if you find that a downer, why not find a Facebook group with people who entirely think like you?

People do care about teachers. I am worried about the risk to myself as a teacher. However, I don't think that means we have to look at a study about the health risks to children and say oh well that's a load of bollocks because it doesn't address the teachers. I can be both relieved for my own children and the vast, vast majority of children in my school whilst also being concerned about the risks to teachers. You can do both. It isnt fair to say you can't be pleased about this study because of risks to teachers.

@Jrobhatch29

Right but to have schools working properly you need staff. What happens when staff sickness closes schools?

The plan is stupid on about 400 levels but mostly because it is dangerous to staff and the most potentially disruptive to kids learning.

It is the shittest of all options.

I'd be quite happy if @Jrobhatch29 was teaching my children and there are some teachers on mumsnet I hope aren't

I think the study is reassuring on many levels. However it has to be taken into context. It doesn't take into account the impact of having many more infected children on the R number for the rest of the population, or the risks to staff member. When schools shut - and they will, either bubbles or entire schools -it will be because of staffing issues.

[quote Holyrivolli]@Alex50. And the same people patrol every Covid thread moaning, being negative and predicting worst case scenarios . Makes me very grateful that I don’t have any people as miserable as that in my life. Can you imagine how much joy they must suck out of everything.[/quote]
I’m a pretty chirpy person, I think you might like me in real life 🤞 I’ve never felt the need to post on a forum before.

I’m not here to be mean or drag people down - I really hope things go as well for you as possible next week. And if the internet is making you feel worse or frustrated I recommend stepping away.

We are all just finding our best option.

I think if you see the best in people you tend to find it - people are posting because they care. They are not trying to suck the joy and would be delighted if this has all gone away in six weeks time! I’m hoping for a positive virus mutation where covid turns into a harmless snuffle (got to have a dream!). But in the meantime I am joining with the many other voices - schools should be more covid secure with social distancing - it is after all an airborne virus.

I think there will be a u-turn (not hard to predict with this government!) and I think the louder the shout the quicker it will happen.

This government seems to have a policy of seeing what they can force do before doing a diluted version of the right thing. I know other people have more faith in Boris and that’s fair enough.

For what it’s worth I like positive articles but only in context. Unless the thread is clear in its title you have to expect that people will seek to provide the context. None of us live in isolation after all. Kids need grown ups.

@QueenBlueberries jinx!

Why so angry?
Not angry - replying in the same vein as your post.

@sunseekin. Why would they do a U-turn on schools? My kids are already back (north of the border) and it’s going very well for both teachers and pupils. There have been a few minor outbreaks - more connected to teachers infecting each other than pupils (one notable one in a SEN school) but the vast majority of schools and pupils are thriving. Perhaps when it happens all the doom and gloom posters will have to admit that their predictions were bollocks. Much like this so called second wave of deaths that people have been predicting due to Easter, D day, etc etc.

I mean with regards safeguards. Schools obviously need to be open. Things already changing with masks, I think provision for safety will continue to improve as numbers go up. I would like to see things turn a bit more preventative - I think people/parent pressure could help make things safer quicker.

[quote BelleSausage]@Jrobhatch29

Right but to have schools working properly you need staff. What happens when staff sickness closes schools?

The plan is stupid on about 400 levels but mostly because it is dangerous to staff and the most potentially disruptive to kids learning.

It is the shittest of all options.[/quote]
I dont disagree with you. Its just a different issue altogether than responding to the actual article.

@Littlebelina

I'd be quite happy if *@Jrobhatch29* was teaching my children and there are some teachers on mumsnet I hope aren't

Thank you

[quote Holyrivolli]@sunseekin. Why would they do a U-turn on schools? My kids are already back (north of the border) and it’s going very well for both teachers and pupils. There have been a few minor outbreaks - more connected to teachers infecting each other than pupils (one notable one in a SEN school) but the vast majority of schools and pupils are thriving. Perhaps when it happens all the doom and gloom posters will have to admit that their predictions were bollocks. Much like this so called second wave of deaths that people have been predicting due to Easter, D day, etc etc.[/quote]
I’m really not convinced about the staff-to-staff transmission. How on earth can they tell? They seem to judge it on more staff being symptomatic - but we know most young people dint have symptoms. Unless they test everyone in a school I have no idea how they can make any judgement about the likely vectors of spread.

@Clutterbugsmum

itsgettingweird

I would expect them to be affected just as the would be if a class mate dies in any other circumstance. You can't keep saying no school because of this pandemic, children unfortunately die in many other ways other then covid. Still not a reason for school not to open and be as normal as possible, and yes in case it not clear my opinion is that schools need to be open and that it is better for most children who were at school prior to this to be at school and getting a proper education, and as importantly socialising with their friends.

Nobody is saying not school, for about the eleventy billionth time. People are saying let’s have some sensible Covid precautions so schools stay open more reliably.

[quote Holyrivolli]@sunseekin. Why would they do a U-turn on schools? My kids are already back (north of the border) and it’s going very well for both teachers and pupils. There have been a few minor outbreaks - more connected to teachers infecting each other than pupils (one notable one in a SEN school) but the vast majority of schools and pupils are thriving. Perhaps when it happens all the doom and gloom posters will have to admit that their predictions were bollocks. Much like this so called second wave of deaths that people have been predicting due to Easter, D day, etc etc.[/quote]
Ah ha holy and there it is.

"Mainly due to teachers infecting each other"

You are falling for the propaganda.

There is NO evidence they did but also no evidence they didn't.

Children are mainly asymptomatic.
Adults seem to be equally both

So symptomatic adult = test.

They are refusing to then test further and will not test asymptomatic pupils.

So then they can avoid having to admit that actually children can and do get it and can and will spread to teachers.

And the only reason I am so sure that's possible is because I've seen the reports from other counties (most recently Germany and Florida) where they did do some blind testing and it showed high figures of students infected.

When this happens in a factory they test all staff to find out who is asymptomatic to understand.

But that's because they don't need to hide the truth about places like this.

I'm happy in my education role the risk to me personally is low (despite catching it (probably) at school and then being told a pupils NRP had it the day after last visit and so they hadn't been that weekend. Pupil the self had been off a day with temp and parent sent them in following day adamant it was "just a cold".

Cardi it's stupid isn't it how many posters can't understand there's a huge area in the middle of current lack of safety guidance and schools staying shut.

It doesn't matter how many times it's said education staff want them open safely to stay open.

Nope. If you want school open safely you must want it closed 🤦🏼‍♀️

@Bupkis

Believe me when I say I am really glad that children are, on the whole, at a very low risk. I work with small children (well I did until this stupid virus crashed into our lives), I have friends with children, I have 3 children myself... However, I also work with some small children who are very vulnerable as a result of their complex needs, I have friends whose children are very vulnerable and one of my children is very vulnerable. This means my happiness is tempered somewhat, partly because these children are still at higher risk.

I also have a feeling of concern, a concern that I always have, that these children are somehow viewed as expendable.

This isn't some random, plucked out of the air concerned that exists in a vacuum of my own neuroses....it is based on years of fighting for support for my child and other people's children

• it comes from seeing how adults with disabilities and health needs are treated by society
• it comes from public policy that disregards the needs of vulnerable people and
• it comes from a knowledge that people like my child have far worse health outcomes than those who do not have learning disabilities and complex needs (e.g. poor quality healthcare contributes to a higher rate of avoidable deaths in those with Learning Disabilities)

I am also aware that these reports this morning will be bought out to reassure parents in the week before schools go back in England, and it is reassuring if your child is healthy, but the fact is nothing has changed for children who have medical vulnerabilities...they are largely off the shielding list, expected to go back to school and threatened with fines if they decide not to send them back. Obviously these articles will not necessarily reassure them!

I apologise for being a little black rain cloud in a sky full of sunshine.

@MJMG2015 thankyou

I honestly cannot believe that some people have read this post from @Bupkis (along with others) and yet still gone on to complain about negative people with "no joy in their lives" trying to drag everyone else down. If this is the level of empathy that parents are passing on to their dc I honestly despair for the next generation. The narrow-minded "I'm alright Jack" attitudes demonstrated by some posters on here is shocking.