Risk to children ‘vanishingly small’

[TeddyIsaHe]

Great article in the Guardian that I hope will put some people’s minds at ease a little before the return to school.

The largest study of children and young people that has been conducted since the beginning of the covid crisis.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/28/vanishingly-small-risk-of-death-or-severe-illness-for-children-from-covid

BMJ study: www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3249

Indeed.

However @TeddyIsaHe there are a whole bunch of paranoid, hysterical people on here that ignore this type of information.

Also it has been reported that primary aged children and teenagers arent really at risk but there has been little information on babies. Being pregnant during this had me worried sick as I am sure other pregnant ladies can relate to. If you Google covid in babies the only info is studies from China that say 10% end up critically ill. It is nice to know my daughter isn't at as much risk as I feared.

Believe me when I say I am really glad that children are, on the whole, at a very low risk. I work with small children (well I did until this stupid virus crashed into our lives), I have friends with children, I have 3 children myself... However, I also work with some small children who are very vulnerable as a result of their complex needs, I have friends whose children are very vulnerable and one of my children is very vulnerable. This means my happiness is tempered somewhat, partly because these children are still at higher risk.

I also have a feeling of concern, a concern that I always have, that these children are somehow viewed as expendable.

This isn't some random, plucked out of the air concerned that exists in a vacuum of my own neuroses....it is based on years of fighting for support for my child and other people's children

• it comes from seeing how adults with disabilities and health needs are treated by society
• it comes from public policy that disregards the needs of vulnerable people and
• it comes from a knowledge that people like my child have far worse health outcomes than those who do not have learning disabilities and complex needs (e.g. poor quality healthcare contributes to a higher rate of avoidable deaths in those with Learning Disabilities)

I am also aware that these reports this morning will be bought out to reassure parents in the week before schools go back in England, and it is reassuring if your child is healthy, but the fact is nothing has changed for children who have medical vulnerabilities...they are largely off the shielding list, expected to go back to school and threatened with fines if they decide not to send them back. Obviously these articles will not necessarily reassure them!

I apologise for being a little black rain cloud in a sky full of sunshine.

@MJMG2015 thankyou

It is good news that children don't suffer too much if they catch it. I think that has always been known. What is unknown is, can they pass it on to to adults either in their own home or at school who will then take it home and potentially infect a vulnerable person or become seriously ill themselves?

Grant Shapps was saying this morning that businesses need to get back to work if they are COVID secure and take into account distancing and the like. It would be great if the same care and consideration could be afforded to schools.

I run a preschool and went back in June with trepidation but as we restricted numbers it was fine. We are now all back in with children going to childminders and/or grandparents thereby expanding the contacts that they (the children) and we come across. It will be an interesting term but saying that I can't wait to get back to work with some sort of normality.

itsgettingweird

I would expect them to be affected just as the would be if a class mate dies in any other circumstance. You can't keep saying no school because of this pandemic, children unfortunately die in many other ways other then covid. Still not a reason for school not to open and be as normal as possible, and yes in case it not clear my opinion is that schools need to be open and that it is better for most children who were at school prior to this to be at school and getting a proper education, and as importantly socialising with their friends.

@Uhoh2020

Why does it always turn into a thread about adults

Because no one cares about children and how they have been affected by lockdown or what impact it may have on their future. Children's needs have been at the very bottom of the priority list

That’s rubbish. Everyone is concerned about the children. The reason the discussion has turned to school and adults is the media playing this as ‘so it’s safe to open schools with next to no mitigating changes’ along with pictures of socially distanced classrooms. I’m very pleased children aren’t affected much (though normally there’s lots of fuss about how many obese children there are - maybe people didn’t really care about them after all) but to use this to defend non-socially distanced classrooms is disingenuous at best.

@Bupkis

Believe me when I say I am really glad that children are, on the whole, at a very low risk. I work with small children (well I did until this stupid virus crashed into our lives), I have friends with children, I have 3 children myself... However, I also work with some small children who are very vulnerable as a result of their complex needs, I have friends whose children are very vulnerable and one of my children is very vulnerable. This means my happiness is tempered somewhat, partly because these children are still at higher risk.

I also have a feeling of concern, a concern that I always have, that these children are somehow viewed as expendable.

This isn't some random, plucked out of the air concerned that exists in a vacuum of my own neuroses....it is based on years of fighting for support for my child and other people's children

• it comes from seeing how adults with disabilities and health needs are treated by society
• it comes from public policy that disregards the needs of vulnerable people and
• it comes from a knowledge that people like my child have far worse health outcomes than those who do not have learning disabilities and complex needs (e.g. poor quality healthcare contributes to a higher rate of avoidable deaths in those with Learning Disabilities)

I am also aware that these reports this morning will be bought out to reassure parents in the week before schools go back in England, and it is reassuring if your child is healthy, but the fact is nothing has changed for children who have medical vulnerabilities...they are largely off the shielding list, expected to go back to school and threatened with fines if they decide not to send them back. Obviously these articles will not necessarily reassure them!

I apologise for being a little black rain cloud in a sky full of sunshine.

@MJMG2015 thankyou

I hear you and wholeheartedly agree with every word.

It is news, it’s a new study, it backs up the claims that have been made before.

@Jrobhatch29

But this thread isn't about schools. Go and post that doom on one of the thousands or school threads. This is just a thread to say isn't it good children are at such low risk!!

It literally made reference to going back to school in the first line of the Original post 🤦🏽‍♀️

@Clutterbugsmum

itsgettingweird

I would expect them to be affected just as the would be if a class mate dies in any other circumstance. You can't keep saying no school because of this pandemic, children unfortunately die in many other ways other then covid. Still not a reason for school not to open and be as normal as possible, and yes in case it not clear my opinion is that schools need to be open and that it is better for most children who were at school prior to this to be at school and getting a proper education, and as importantly socialising with their friends.

Fair enough.

And if your child's school is unfortunate enough to end up getting an outbreak - like the factories etc - I assume it is manageable for your family?

I guess if you have the resources to home school and WFH/SAHP it affects you personally less so it matters less to you if it isn't made safer than the current guidelines?

I also assume you won't be joining the government in blaming it on teachers and school staff?

@phatsandsmall if you would like to stop finding reasons to have a go at me that would be nice.

Like I mentioned up thread, not all parents will be looking at this info in relation to schools. There are also infants and toddlers to consider who have no bearing on schools. Yes many are in childcare settings but many are also at home. Very little information has been made available about infants and what has been available hasnt been overly positive so I am not a bad person for being relieved at this news in relation to my 3 month old.

I think if you want to avoid the gloom you need to start a WhatsApp thread with like minded people or stick to the newspapers - loads of one sided stuff there. In an open forum people are always going to be passionate about putting their views across and having balanced threads especially when there is so much at stake. They can make the newspapers one sided but the forums are thankfully open.

“Balanced”. That’s a joke. Balanced must be code for finding the negative in absolutely everything and also making it all about teachers. I’m married to a secondary school teacher. Of course I care about the risk to teachers. But I still find it helpful to read about the actual risk to my child. It’s staggeringly low and that’s a good thing.

At the moment, but I have taught exponential growth many many times; there seems to be little mention of what schools might do to r, how they expect that risk to increase and any uncertainty surrounding asymptomatic transmission in classrooms.

It is what it is - numbers are low at the moment - I hope they stay that way and that safeguards in the classrooms are improved before numbers increase. If we all just nod, share positive articles and ignore potential risks we might walk blindly into a worse scenario.

I really don’t want to make anyone feel worse and if you have no choice about next week please step away from the internet. The risks are low now but the provision is not good enough so the risks could rapidly increase.

I think people are posting to those that are trying to make a choice - it’s wrong to pretend it’s all okay like the government and press. Nobody is posting to make people feel worse. My rants are purely motivated about making things better for those that need to go to school.

Ps if you want a positive thread, make the title “positive views about schools only - we have to go that week”. I would of course go away but I’m so irritated by the press - the government is even sponsoring positive articles in some papers. It’s just wrong. Everyone going to school deserves better.

*next

@sunseekin

At the moment, but I have taught exponential growth many many times; there seems to be little mention of what schools might do to r, how they expect that risk to increase and any uncertainty surrounding asymptomatic transmission in classrooms.

It is what it is - numbers are low at the moment - I hope they stay that way and that safeguards in the classrooms are improved before numbers increase. If we all just nod, share positive articles and ignore potential risks we might walk blindly into a worse scenario.

I really don’t want to make anyone feel worse and if you have no choice about next week please step away from the internet. The risks are low now but the provision is not good enough so the risks could rapidly increase.

I think people are posting to those that are trying to make a choice - it’s wrong to pretend it’s all okay like the government and press. Nobody is posting to make people feel worse. My rants are purely motivated about making things better for those that need to go to school.

Ps if you want a positive thread, make the title “positive views about schools only - we have to go that week”. I would of course go away but I’m so irritated by the press - the government is even sponsoring positive articles in some papers. It’s just wrong. Everyone going to school deserves better.

Again i fully agree with you

And for those not going to school - there are in fact children under 4 still out there - we have a different set of decisions to make and this was a useful study to read. The bulk of deaths and hospitalisations are from infections at the end of March when schools and childcare had only just closed, and yet the number of children hospitalised or who died is still tiny.

I took DD to soft play last weekend. It was great, far fewer kids than normal and much cleaner. But for some people on here I’ve condemned her to death or a lifetime of ill health by taking her to a germ infested death pit. It’s nice to have the statistics to test against your gut instinct sometimes.

There's also the question of trust. Remember the 'building a ring around old people's homes' bollox? Yea that one. Doesn't inspire much confidence does it.

I have two teenagers and the data is more for younger children, which is fine. But the risks have to be looked at for what they are, not sugar coated. Teenagers are slightly more at risk (still low) but as likely as adults to PASS IT ON which I think is the main issue here.

Most secondary schools are larger than primary schools (over 1500 pupils), many traveling on public transport. Teenagers will have much larger bubbles than primary schools. GCSE students will have much more mixing within their bubbles during the course of a day. They also deal with many more teachers.

Despite all the measures put in place, (I work in a secondary school) my sometimes accurate crystal ball tells me that it's secondary school kids that will bring the R number up, and very rapidly. Not primary school.

"There's also the question of trust. Remember the 'building a ring around old people's homes' bollox? Yea that one. Doesn't inspire much confidence does it."

I think there's a difference between crap the government spout and studies published in medical journals though.

Trust is trust. The government has been using medical and research data to prove that 'large gathering such as sporting events are safe'. Remember?

Childrenn* with obesity were at higher risk. So were children in the 10-14 age bracket, who were the ones more likely to suffer from multisystem inflammatory syndrome, a new condition thought to be linked to Covid-19.

I didn't know about the second bit and have a 14yo 🤔

Why does it always turn into a thread about adults

Secondary school children are adult sized and the government have said that their Covid risk is equal to healthy adults.

@QueenBlueberries

Trust is trust. The government has been using medical and research data to prove that 'large gathering such as sporting events are safe'. Remember?

It isnt just our government saying this though in all fairness. It is echoed in studies around the world. This new study just supports it. I'm pleased it acknowledges under 5s as well.

@QueenBlueberries

Trust is trust. The government has been using medical and research data to prove that 'large gathering such as sporting events are safe'. Remember?

Exactly my trust is gone. You can always find some science to fit, especially when things are so new and uncertain. They are following the money and fitting in the science. “Following the science” is more about making sure there’s a scapegoat. The whole way it’s been handled and how we ever elected a government lacking in compassion concerns me way more than coronavirus. It could have been so different.

@QueenBlueberries

There's also the question of trust. Remember the 'building a ring around old people's homes' bollox? Yea that one. Doesn't inspire much confidence does it.

I have two teenagers and the data is more for younger children, which is fine. But the risks have to be looked at for what they are, not sugar coated. Teenagers are slightly more at risk (still low) but as likely as adults to PASS IT ON which I think is the main issue here.

Most secondary schools are larger than primary schools (over 1500 pupils), many traveling on public transport. Teenagers will have much larger bubbles than primary schools. GCSE students will have much more mixing within their bubbles during the course of a day. They also deal with many more teachers.

Despite all the measures put in place, (I work in a secondary school) my sometimes accurate crystal ball tells me that it's secondary school kids that will bring the R number up, and very rapidly. Not primary school.

I think I have the same ball. Secondaries will definitely be worse.

It isnt just our government saying this though in all fairness. It is echoed in studies around the world. This new study just supports it. I'm pleased it acknowledges under 5s as well.

Agreed - I’m hardly a fan of this government and their handling of COVID so it’s a bit galling to be told I’m falling for propaganda as if no one is capable of critically judging the source for themselves. I’m sure the BMJ are thrilled to hear they’re just stooges of Cummings.