Boris Johnson admits school face mask advice might change

[FlySheMust]

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/25/covid-19-boris-johnson-school-face-mask-advice-change?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1yzapQ3GD6aI3G2l-p0D-GvDuffPovLRSBP7ytZoIZtyDeeLy5bkLqbL4#Echobox=1598365661

Someone on here said this was exactly what would happen a week before they went back.

I was surprised that he said masks would be required in secondary schools within areas of local lockdown. I had understood lockdown to mean no mixing of households at all, so was surprised that the schools were open in those areas.

It was always going to happen. I don't think many people are surprised.

The only reason masks haven't been compulsory everywhere from the start was to save them for the NHS. I wonder how many people have caught it who wouldn't have if they'd had masks in their workplace.

We got some before the lockdown, we are both vulnerable.

@Newjez

Who pays for the masks? They are not cheap, and if you use them probably you will go through several a day.

I was trying to get ahead with some online Christmas shopping yesterday and noticed poundshop had some plain black ones for a pound.

There are c. 12 million school pupils in UK. If they're suddenly going to need enough masks to wear daily, it would be really nice if they gave parents a few days notice! Will suppliers even be able to provide them?

Also schools, who I imagine will need to provide some for deprived students and/or those without.

Every single thing you've read about makes says you wear it and then don't touch it again until it's been washed. So if they're being used to move around school but not worn all day, how many per day do they need?

Surely we haven't got to the point where we're all in favour of this crutch, which probably doesn't help and might even make the students more vulnerable with masks being handled and worn incorrectly? Are staff going to make sure children don't wear them round their necks, which increases their risk, for example?

I dont think we will ever get to the point where we are all in favour but the scientific consensus is changing and if it prevents repeated incidents of self isolation or full or partial closures that can only be a good thing.

Lots of countries and increasing use of masks in school. Even in America there was uproar when people saw what corridors look like.

I still don't get why people think the way the virus spreads in the uk will be so different to what happens in other countries. I increasingly worry about" british common sense" but I am in favour of a bit of pragmatism. Just buy a pack of reusable masks and tell your kids to only touch the straps. Covid is extremely unlikely to be serious for them but it might be for someone else or vulnerable kids in their class.

Masks in local lockdowns

Not convinced it’ll do much as taken on and off. But ok if it keeps schools open and people go for it as reassurance.

I'm in Greater Manchester. We've all been saying that we will follow Scotland who seem to be actually doing the leading on this.
Pathetic ball sack in Downing Street should just give up and let the grown ups deal with this.
Nudge? Fucking useless piece of shit that he is.

Luckily, I've made a load of reusable masks for dd. I suppose this is better than the two hours notice we got from the last re-lockdown.
I'd suggest you all prepare for it because it's heading your way too.

No rota at least in lockdown area. If masks are some kind of thing against this then fine.

No problem doing but, here's a crazy idea, the government have some consideration for hard pressed parents and give them more warning.
But it's only "those" people "oop narth" so it doesn't count.

This is what is soooo infuriating...first off esp on here people condemn Boris for not locking down quick enough, now you see posts about how we shouldn't of been locked down

The problem isn't the decision he's made. The problem is that England gets the same science as Scotland but can't make decisions and own them. It weakens Boris massively and he had to take the hit personally as he couldn't lay anything else on Williamson and keep him in post.

@Barbie222

This is what is soooo infuriating...first off esp on here people condemn Boris for not locking down quick enough, now you see posts about how we shouldn't of been locked down

The problem isn't the decision he's made. The problem is that England gets the same science as Scotland but can't make decisions and own them. It weakens Boris massively and he had to take the hit personally as he couldn't lay anything else on Williamson and keep him in post.

Agree about same science.

In fact its global as it's a pandemic and science is led by WHO.

But my main concern and where I struggle to trust their decisions is the lack of continuity.

Face masks for all children and adults over 11 is mandatory on transport, museums, supermarkets, take out queues etc. This is also b side santiser, 2m distancing, one way systems etc

This is led by the science. The last way science which shows it's spread more by areosol than we originally knew.

Schools - the science is different. The guidance actually says no need for face masks.

Why? I've yet to find anyone who can explain why the science in Tescos is different than secondary school. I'm more than willing to be educated as to why but as yet there is no evidence anyone has been able to produce.

Yet we can produce evidence WHO says over 12's need masks as transmission is the same for this age group upwards.
We can see that worldwide other counties have predominantly worn masks to schools.

I don't believe this is about Boris needing to cave to pressure.
I believe this is him not being in top of the science and information and not being aware enough of RL to consider how to apply it nationally.

One key difference is length of time wearing it. Initially there was advice in changing often which seems to have fallen by wayside. Ditto re-using. This still stands in medical settings but also ignored if worn in corridors.

These make me question effectiveness in schools.

Tbh it doesn’t bother me if needed in lockdown areas in corridors as long as it doesn’t actually promote infection spreading due to re-use.

It sounds like a salve against closing or rotas which would stress me far more for exam child.

Is there any evidence that homemade/or simple face coverings are effective? My college has said we have to wear FFP2/3 masks when in the premises. These are the ones that offer protection to both the wearer and the environment. 20 masks for £30 when I'm on UC is a bit steep but as ecv then needs must.

This article is interesting if anyone is interested in the different types of masks.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7194956/

They are effective at slowing the spread. Ish. If handled properly. They don't protect the wearer.
Full n95 masks are useless without full PPE for protecting the wearer.

N95 masks technically need to be changed between each patient and when it gets sweaty etc but no one does that because it would be HUGELY wasteful (DH works in PPE for a public health program in the US and he HATES his PPE and the pressure sores from the mask but has no choice).

@SheepandCow

How are low income people supposed to afford them. Online 8 triple layer masks are £30 There's no requirement for those masks in the rules. You don't need to spend anywhere near as much as that. You can get a reusable washable one for about £3 online. The disposable surgical masks offer the wearer better protection but they're not compulsory. Also, other posters have already said that masks are available at food banks.

And if you aren't using a foodbank? We have had the FSM vouchers all summer so have used those, it'd be very greedy to then use a food bank as well even if we did have a referral.

How do you work out that I don't need to spend £30? Using your price of £3 for a single mask for 4 people needing 2 masks each:

£3 x 4 x 2 = £24. Plus postage of £5 = £29. There's the £30 that you claim doesn't need to be spent.

They are needed for school in the corridors and on the school bus when they use it (so far I have been taking them to school but have to stop soon) so one for the bus, one for school is the minimum.

"They are needed for school in the corridors and on the school bus when they use it (so far I have been taking them to school but have to stop soon) so one for the bus, one for school is the minimum."

Do people actually change masks when going to different shops etc? Most people I see are taking them off between shops and out them back on before going in the next one.

@walksen

"They are needed for school in the corridors and on the school bus when they use it (so far I have been taking them to school but have to stop soon) so one for the bus, one for school is the minimum."

Do people actually change masks when going to different shops etc? Most people I see are taking them off between shops and out them back on before going in the next one.

No idea, I am talking about in school so quoting my message about schools and ask a completely unrelated question about masks in shops is plain odd.

Well you were implying you'd need one mask for school and another for buses. I doubt everyone uses a different mask when they go to a shop then a different one for every bus they get on so why would they need to in schools?

Do people actually change masks when going to different shops etc? Most people I see are taking them off between shops and out them back on before going in the next one.

I keep mine on.

But if I wore it for 30 minutes plus and room it off for coffee or something I'd wear a new one.

I have lots of washable double layer ones. (About 15).

I have a quick wash and tumble setting on my machine and just chuck them in every 3 days or so.

I haven't seen anyone changing them between shops.

I've seen a few people change them on the bus/tube. Off goes the worn one into bags/pockets and a "clean" one put on. Quotations because clean and dirty one stored together and no wiping hands at any stage.

And there seems to be a weird fashion craze at the moment. Walk out of wherever, take off mask and pop it on your wrist until it's needed again. 🤪

@walksen

Well you were implying you'd need one mask for school and another for buses. I doubt everyone uses a different mask when they go to a shop then a different one for every bus they get on so why would they need to in schools?

One bubble on the bus, one in school. Shops are not bubbles and are a different kettle of fish entirely.

I don't go out shopping and certainly don't go to several shops, in fact I avoid shopping at all costs as it's not an activity I enjoy. I go to one supermarket for food shopping occasionally and that's it.

I doubt the virus knows anything about which bubble you are in or whether you are in a shop or a school. The mask is intended to prevent aerosol transmission in whatever your environment you are in and possible reduce your viral load if you inhale any. Change it if it is too damp by all means. I'm sure most schools will only specify one mask and a bag to store it in.