Protecting the NHS?

[Racoonworld]

Back in March we were told lockdown was to protect the NHS, would be reviewed every 3 weeks and likely to be for up to 12 weeks. Well it is now 5 months later, the NHS never got overwelmed, and we are still in lockdown. Yes I know things are opening up but we still have massive restrictions on our lives, including not being able to hug family and friends and not being able to see more than one household inside (England), which over summer is fine but coming up to winter is obviously not going to be sustainable for most people. Many have had education disrupted, healthcare disrupted, jobs lost, family and friends separated, and I'm sure many more consequences.

What are we all/the government waiting for? There may never be a vaccine or effective treatment. Do they really expect people to live like this for years if there is no vaccine? Surely they need to give us a plan and timeline for what they expect of us or no one will stick to the rules for much longer.

Agreed. We had to cancel our wedding when the country went into lockdown. As it was only a few weeks away we had paid for almost everything in full, for 80 people. We moved it to November as in march this seemed doable (obviously not) not we've had to move it to next springs but unless theres a vaccine it seems impossible it will happen. I would like to know if we've just wasted £15,000 on something that isn't going to ever be legal again.

@IndiaMay sorry about your wedding, that's an awful situation to be in. We have friends having the same problem, so difficult to know what date to move them to if no timeline is given and it's not the sort of money people can afford to lose.

Finding a vaccine and doing all the trials etc takes a long time, the virus wasn't known until 5 months ago, getting a vaccine that is trialed and tested takes time.

COVID has upset a lot of things in life and is still having a massive impact on everything including the NHS and additional services.

It's awful how the world has come to a halt and the impact it has had on everybody but actually if it didn't many more would have died.

@LateNightTalk I know it can take a long time to get a vaccine but my issue is there may never be one and if there is it will be a long time. We haven't been given a plan from the government as to what they expect of us, we need one for if there is a vaccine and also for if there isn't. As it stands they can't expect us to carry on like this indefinitely.

@Racoonworld exactly, and insurance isn't worth the paper its written on. Hope your friends sort theirs out soon. Seems all that can be done is keep pushing it back and pushing it back and pray suppliers/venues etc that havent been able to operate since march dont go bust with out money in the meantime

Actually wondering when the NHS will actually do anything for people who haven’t got COVID ☹️ it seems there are no face to face appointments to be had here, no dental treatment unless you pay privately plus in the region of £40 PPE charge. Story after story on here of people who can’t get treatment at all.

@LateNightTalk thing is there may never be a vaccine or there could be but in 20 years, or 100 years or more. Everyone has limit on how long they live like this and some have reached it. I reached mine in June, you may not reach yours until December or in a years time or in 2 years time but you will eventually and what then? Do I never see my elderly grandad again? He hasn't got long left. Does my friend who has a toddler who lives abroad with his ex not see his child for 10 years? Waiting on a vaccine could take lifetimes for some people.

Do you think that the cabinet are still reviewing anything? They wiped their hands of this long ago. All they're interested in now is pinning blame on others for their ineptitude.

I reached my limit in April but we have no choice. I haven't seen my parents apart from in a garden since March it's rubbish for everybody. The NHS are doing appointments because I've had one.

Unfortunately it's rubbish for everybody and actually compared to two months ago things are lifting slowly but if we all run before we can walk it will end up in full lockdown again

Everybody has their own reasons for not liking this but would you rather that or potentially pass it onto a loved one and potentially kill them?

Sounds harsh but it's true.

@LateNightTalk I completely understand what you're saying. I've been following the rules and hate it when people break them. But I've come to realise that I don't hate it when people break them because I'm worried about Covid, I hate it because I'm worried the government will lock us down for the next year or longer if a vaccine isn't found. How can we live like this indefinitely? We need to be told what is going on and what the plan is. People need to be able to get on with their lives or at least know a timeline for when this will happen.

Roughly speaking I think we thought things were bad in Italy because their health system was over whelmed we now know things were bad because the virus kills and health care capacity is not the key element in that.

We are now therefore in an odd half way house where we do not know what to do, we cannot go for Complete elimination As it’s too late but if we open up again the virus would spread killing too many people. So we are left hoping science comes through with some answers in terms of treatment or vaccination. It’s worrying because it is putting a lot of faith in something that may never happen but there is frankly no other option. I do feel this is a change but accept it’s not been totally communicated hence people still thinking it’s about nhs capacity which I now think is only part of the story.

Unfortunately there will always be people vulnerable to various illnesses. We can't lock down for ever to protect everyone from everything. My mum is currently ill with pneumonia, there is a chance she might not survive, it isn't from Covid but isn't any less serious.

@Evenstar

Actually wondering when the NHS will actually do anything for people who haven’t got COVID ☹️ it seems there are no face to face appointments to be had here, no dental treatment unless you pay privately plus in the region of £40 PPE charge. Story after story on here of people who can’t get treatment at all.

I rang my hospital todAy to ask about my surgery. Which was meant to happen just before lock down but was cancelled.

So they’re starting surgery in sept. Sept lists are full. Secretary said Oct lists are looking full, my name not on list yet. Then she said in nov and Dec they’re service will have all their slots pulled due to winter pressure and not expect surgery until next spring/summer. I’m struggling walking. Can’t drive. Can’t manage stairs easily.

I don't really fully understand why the core message of 'protect the nhs' was taken so much to heart. Although it was hammered home a lot.

Imo we locked down because s dentists and doctors knew we faced an enormous number of deaths.

We didn't technically see the NHS overwhelmed, but we failed deeply to protect lives.

We are here because we currently have three choices - go back to mass infection and tens of thousands of deaths (unacceptable politically and ethically), invest to get the virus more under control so we can open up properly (have you met our current government?) or stay as we are in halfway house/purgatory.

We can't just reopen, unless we accept the accompanying deaths.

Erm, s dentists should read 'scientists'.

I respect dentistsbut they were not leading our covid response!

@JacobReesMogadishu how ridiculous. Given there are hardly any people in hospitals now with Covid how is this allowed to happen?

@Racoonworld

I dunno. The secretary said they have a big back log to get through. I guess there are only so many theatre slots. She did say they’re trying to get slots at a nearby private hospital which might speed things up. But there’s still only one consultant...my operation is quite tricky so he needs to do it.

@latticechaos because that's what we were told, it was part of the original slogan and what all news was about. We even had clapping for the NHS and banners everywhere saying it. Nothing further has been communicated, we have no idea what the pan is now because no one has said.

I understand that we can't reopen without more deaths, but we also can't stay closed as that is also causing deaths and misery. Covid deaths aren't everything.

[quote Racoonworld]@JacobReesMogadishu how ridiculous. Given there are hardly any people in hospitals now with Covid how is this allowed to happen?[/quote]
Because they know what is likely to happen in winter. There is no point telling someone they will have surgery if it is going to get cancelled.

If a bad winter is avoided then they will work through the list.

They can't just pretend covid doesn't exist. Hospitals have to distance and clean more - so fewer ops.

We can't blame the NHS for the chronic underfunding issues. We had no pandemic preparation - a government choice to ignore the report they commissioned.

[quote Racoonworld]@latticechaos because that's what we were told, it was part of the original slogan and what all news was about. We even had clapping for the NHS and banners everywhere saying it. Nothing further has been communicated, we have no idea what the pan is now because no one has said.

I understand that we can't reopen without more deaths, but we also can't stay closed as that is also causing deaths and misery. Covid deaths aren't everything.[/quote]
What would you do then? Because I would invest money to drive covid further down and invest in additional medical space.

But our government will not do that.

@LateNightTalk but you havent reached your limit as you're still following the rules. But say, in 5 years time would you still only be willing to see your mum in her garden on the 0.09% change covid would be fatal?

I agree OP. It was about protecting the NHS. Well, as far as I can see, the NHS is not overwhelmed, numbers of dying have fallen back to normal levels and most infections are now taking place in those under 40 with few ill effects.

I did not agree to have my life on hold indefinitely and I'm damned if I'll support another lockdown. We need to get on with things, open up and get on with life. Many people are ignoring a lot of the guidelines - people ARE hugging, are going out drinking, are attending parties and still living to tell the tale.

I want to travel, go out for dinner, get a dentist appointment, socialise and get on with life. The NHS isn't overwhelmed so why are we still in this halfway house?

I think she meant just normal winter pressures, not even any extra pressures due to Covid. 🤷‍♀️

I'm not blaming the NHS, I'm blaming the government for prioritising Covid over everything else. Why does someone with Covid take precedence over someone with something else for healthcare?

Flatten the curve

Anyone remember that?